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Jesus loves you... convert now and you might have a new spicy life
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Lira


Yes, you'd probably rot in hell if you keep thinking what you're thinking, but she wouldn't.
Like most fellow countrymen, I was raised in the Catholic faith. However, I never joined any religious community because I wansn't really that much of a believer, and I had almost been expelled from a Catholic school by the age of 10 (for being against the doctrine), so I thought I should keep some distance. Took the first communion course in a military school without speaking to any of my classmates and I then there was that confirmation thingy I did for political reasons, not making friends again. Later on, I found out I was completely oblivious of what was going on in those courses.



Props to JC. He said God would forgive us for our sins, after all. So, if we commit a sin, we're giving Him (or Her) the chance to forgive us, and that would be another way of showing how merciful he is. What good would it be if His (or Her) followers didn't do anything wrong?
The eye-opener experience happened right when I graduated from high school, when my most religious friend ever suddenly became a father thanks to pre-marital shagging. Afterwards, there was this classmate from my old school (yes, the one I was almost expelled from), and I found out that not only she was fond of having threesomes with teachers (she told me about it myself), but I also I heard loads of "mind-opening" stuff, let's put it this way. It seems that school became a lot of fun a few years after I left it.

Then, this week, I heard some things from another classmate of mine (from university, this time) about the Protestant church she goes to. The pastor's fiancee was pregnant of some other bloke, a couple of the most faithful teens were now pregnant, and yet another girl was caught red-handed, about to be banged somewhere inside the church (the day I find someone who got off at the altar, I'm going to level this person as my new idol)... and there was this lad who locked his girlfriend up all day long in order to check how faithful she could be, and because he was jealous. Along with that, there were some stories that my girlfriend told me about her sister's Christian group, and they were quite punk-rock (not as much as what I previously mentioned though). Cheating, pregnancies... but often a lot weirder than your average drama.

It would go unnoticed, but the thing is: Some of these people were the harshest self-righteous human beings whose existence I've ever witnessed. Remember that "holier than thou" stereotype some of us have? Imagine it being scattered by such revelations.

And what could explain that?

First of all, the Christian faith is very individualistic when it says that, whatever you do, can be simply forgiven by regret and/or your faith on God (reason why people call priests when they're dying in order to confess - heaven entrance guaranteed). So, technically, it seems you can be as naughty as you want and, by having faith or saying you're sorry, it's as good as new. As I recall it, we should be thankful either to Augustine of Hippo or Thomas Aquinas for that.

Also, according both to Nietzsche1, Taoism2 and several others, extremes tend to behave in similar ways. This is yet another example. Their mind is so set at "avoid sin, avoid sin, avoid sin, avoid sin" that, after repeating "sin" so many times, it seems to add a whole new nature to their actions.

But, above all, it shows they commit mistakes, and this is just one of them. They're human. If one of them comes to you and says "I'm better than you for I believe in God", why argue? This is simply an ego boost, and open-minded religious people wouldn't say that sort of thing anyway.

Loads of people seem to hate religion to death. That would be as pointless as hating guns. Religion is not the problem, but people's mistake, which is quite human. If it weren't for religions, there would be arguments over philosophies (which already exists), football teams (idem) and social classes (ibidem).

Well, this thread seems to have 2 different points then.

1"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

2"Opposite extremes tend to become the same" or something like that :p
Yan
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.


Damn. That's deep. The abyss, that is.

Oh yeah... and the quote itself. :stongue:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
"Opposite extremes tend to become the same" or something like that :p


I'm baffled. :conf:
_____________________________________________________________

It's sad to see how the last "haven" for humanity, religion, is as corrupt, if not worse, as the nay-sayers.
::TranceVanDyk::
quote:
First of all, the Christian faith is very individualistic when it says that, whatever you do, can be simply forgiven by regret and/or your faith on God (reason why people call priests when they're dying in order to confess - heaven entrance guaranteed). So, technically, it seems you can be as naughty as you want and, by having faith or saying you're sorry, it's as good as new. As I recall it, we should be thankful either to Augustine of Hippo or Thomas Aquinas for that.


great memior. NOT. every church ive been to, and ive been to many never had any of that going on. i dunno what church this guys talking about. ive never even seen it in the catholic church.

christian doctrine holds to the tenet, once you are "genuinely saved", you are god's child. u cannot be separated from Him. there is a very good illustration of the tree and fruit. u know a tree is good by the fruit it bears. therefore, repentance, which is being truelly sorry for your sin, asking forgiveness and then turning away from sin or stopping the sinful behavior is a peice of this fruit. many people have the wrong idea that, "Now i have an excuse to do whatever i want. all i have to do is ask forgiveness everytime i do soemthing wrong and im good to go." the catholic church unfortunately caters to this misconception. yet there are many behaviors that people just cant control on their own. thats why the "Holy Spirit" is so important in christianity. it is "by the Power Of The Holy Spirit" that one is "healed". with the help of fellow christians and the indwelling of the "Holy SPirit" within one who is genuinely saved, it is very much possible for a genuine christian to turn from a sinful behavior.

quote:
Loads of people seem to hate religion to death. That would be as pointless as hating guns. Religion is not the problem, but people's mistake, which is quite human. If it weren't for religions, there would be arguments over philosophies (which already exists), football teams (idem) and social classes (ibidem).


people who hate religion and christianity in particular either hate it because a)they dont like being told how to live their lives or b)they dont like the idea that they will be held accountable of their actions.

quote:
If one of them comes to you and says "I'm better than you for I believe in God", why argue? This is simply an ego boost, and open-minded religious people wouldn't say that sort of thing anyway.


if someone comes up to you and says that, they obviously dont know their own faith, because basic christian doctrine states, "Do not judge, or you shall be judged." but, it is different within the church. the bible says, "Judge those within the church. Keep each other accountable. Let the unbelievers judge themselves, that is not your business."

------------------

christianity 101, this article is a blatent lie from where i come from.
::TranceVanDyk::
about so-called christian schools...

i go to one myself, a protestant one. i will simply state, "Just because a school is associated with the christian religion by no way means that everyone within the school is christian."

the entire staff in my school is definately christain except for one guy, the atheletics director who has been known to hit the on the girls, make dirty jokes to the atheletes, and allow us to curse, albeit i dont curse that often. the student body is a different scene. out of the 120 high school students, id say 20%-25% are truelly christian. then ide say another 50% are indifferent. then the rest of the 25 or 30 percent are what some would consider "bad".

maybe its the stigma of being in a conservative christian school that gives us the feeling to have to rebel? i dunno. this group is involved in sex, drugs, booze, and partying. though, i stay away from sex, i still drink and occassionally do some drugs but i do it responsibly. my birthday its already planned out what im going to do. we all know it. X party. i been working my glowstrings for a while and have gotten very good. we all know what we're going to do, yet when we go to school, we put on our sweet little faces for visitors and parents touring the school.

but in saying all this, the christian doctrine, religion, whatever stands by itself. if im bad(or shall i say live contrary to christian doctrine), thats my fault, not christianities. or my schools. i choose what i want to do, not them.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
great memior. NOT. every church ive been to, and ive been to many never had any of that going on. i dunno what church this guys talking about. ive never even seen it in the catholic church.

Igreja Perpetuo Socorro

SHIS QI 05 Setor de Igrejas, 01
7000-000
Brasilia-DF
Brazil

That's the church in which I heard the priest telling me that I could be saved if I had faith on God. There's also the other churches in which they told me Jesus had die to forgive my sins.
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
christian doctrine holds to the tenet, once you are "genuinely saved", you are god's child. u cannot be separated from Him. there is a very good illustration of the tree and fruit. u know a tree is good by the fruit it bears. therefore, repentance, which is being truelly sorry for your sin, asking forgiveness and then turning away from sin or stopping the sinful behavior is a peice of this fruit. many people have the wrong idea that, "Now i have an excuse to do whatever i want. all i have to do is ask forgiveness everytime i do soemthing wrong and im good to go." the catholic church unfortunately caters to this misconception.

That's exactly the church I'm keeping my focus on. I extended it to "Christian" because many other protestant churches around here seem to like this genuinely saved status, as a way of gathering more followers.
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
yet there are many behaviors that people just cant control on their own. thats why the "Holy Spirit" is so important in christianity. it is "by the Power Of The Holy Spirit" that one is "healed". with the help of fellow christians and the indwelling of the "Holy SPirit" within one who is genuinely saved, it is very much possible for a genuine christian to turn from a sinful behavior.

Behaviours people "can't" control on their own? What about self-discipline?

Besides, I can't understand the relevance of the Holy Spirit Concept to this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
people who hate religion and christianity in particular either hate it because a)they dont like being told how to live their lives or b)they dont like the idea that they will be held accountable of their actions.

Not necessarily. Not only this generalisation is bound to be nulled by a single counter-example, but the things that might trigger anger and/or hatred in people are far simpler than that - anger is usually aimed at threats. As for what might make a person feel threatened by Christianity, it would be a lot more than these two mere examples.
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
if someone comes up to you and says that, they obviously dont know their own faith, because basic christian doctrine states, "Do not judge, or you shall be judged." but, it is different within the church. the bible says, "Judge those within the church. Keep each other accountable. Let the unbelievers judge themselves, that is not your business."

The doctrine is one thing. The behaviour of those who follow the doctrine is often independent, so yeah, they probably don't know their faith. I never said the doctrine demanded them to do so. I'm talking about the people who use the doctrine as a way of feeling special, even if their doctrine shouldn't be applied that way.
quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
christianity 101, this article is a blatent lie from where i come from.

Erm... so where you come from, Christians aren't just humans? ;)
Subey
Lira what is the result of completing the Hajj with regards to Sin?
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by Subey
Lira what is the result of completing the Hajj with regards to Sin?

That is a very good question. Unfortunately, I don't know the Islam enough to answer this confidently, but I thought it was just a duty for those who had the chance to.
weymouth
Ideological beliefs and governs of life should not be based on the actions of others.
mezzir
quote:
Originally posted by Nou
I WANT CATHOLIC SCHOOL GIRLS RIGHT NOW!!!!!




I was gunna post a pic, but I couldnt find any decent ones... :(

GIS > joo

Blue.
Aren't all christian schools like that? I know some nasty from my school, it's not as if it's hallowed ground or anything.

Now ing the pastors daughter, that is going to send me to hell. Although my brother gave me a pat on the back for it and my dad laughed.
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