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Pope wants life support till the end... (pg. 3)
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
I agree. Dan Brown writes fiction, he might do some research but i wouldn't trust his books as a reference source. Sorta like reading Tom Clancy and expecting to learn something about the CIA. :D |
You mean the hunt for Red October never happened??! :eek: :toothless |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
LoL, Dan Brown is NOT an authority on the Catholic Church. |
he may not be an officially recognized/ credible 'authority' on the topic because of his fiction books, however he has done extensive empirical research at the Vatican including an audience with the Pope himself and granted access of a visit to some of the 'secret' (non-public) places within the Vatican in order to write this book. I don't think that this book and the Da Vinci Code would have received such huge world-wide attention as well as caused such a global outcry over this religious & spiritual controversy, like The Passion of the Christ, if there wasn't some sort of truth to it.
Specifically in regard to the idea of the papal election process - it's not rocket science and it's not a mystery. His way of describing it in Angels and Demons is spot on. Here is the encyclopedic definition, which is exactly according to Brown's utilization of the term that is wrapped, admittably, into a fictious story:
PAPAL ELECTION: election of the pope by the college of cardinals meeting in secret conclave in the Sistine Chapel not less than 15 nor more than 18 days after the death of the previous pontiff. The election is by secret ballot; Pius XII fixed the electoral majority at two thirds plus one vote. The election itself confers on the new pope full jurisdiction; no further formality is necessary. The elected pope may decline; if so, the balloting resumes. The secrecy of the conclave is assured by shutting off the cardinals completely from the outside world, and at one time expedition was encouraged by severe restriction of the cardinals' diet after a few days. After each session the paper ballots are burned; if the vote is inconclusive straw is added to produce black smoke. Thus, white smoke signifies that a new pope has been chosen. Theoretically any adult male Roman Catholic is eligible, but long-standing practice limits the candidates to cardinals; before John Paul II was elected in 1978, the last non-Italian elected was Adrian VI, a Netherlander, in 1522. In the vacancy of the Holy See the entire college of cardinals holds the papal jurisdiction, but its powers are extremely limited. The popes were at first elected like other bishops, by the clergy and laity of the diocese; serious political interference was discouraged in 769 by the exclusion of the laity from papal election. Participation in the election was limited (1059) to the cardinals by Nicholas II; the conclave was set up (1274) in its modern form by Gregory X. Decrees by Pius XII in 1945, John XXIII in 1962, Paul VI in 1975, and John Paul II in 1996 now fix the regulations for papal elections.
while the Pope is still alive and not able to physically perform his duties, as well within the timeframe of the time that he died and until the successor is elected -sede vacante, the so-called camerlengo is in charge, kind of like a 'deputy' with limited powers:
Camerlengo: The cardinal who manages the pope's secular affairs.
The Camerlengo is involved with the preparations concerning the conclave and the Pope's funeral. He is not, however, currently responsible for the government of the Roman Catholic Church during a Sede Vacante. Universi Dominici Gregis placed that task in the hands of the College of Cardinals -- although this power of government is extremely limited, being merely enough to allow Church institutions to continue to operate and perform some basic funcions without making any definitive decisions or appointments that are normally reserved to or are powers delegated by the pope. The Camerlengo, though, does keep his office during the sede vacante, as opposed to the rest of the Roman Curia. |
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| rabbitjoker |
Dan Brown is nothing more than a blasphemor.
Fiction is fiction. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Also, I might be wrong but i thought that according to tradition only one pope can exist at any one time, and the new pope can only be appointed when the existing pope dies. Thus, the option of resigning or finding a successor while the pope still lives would create a new precedent where there'd be two popes operating as head of the catholic church. Something that hasn't ever happened before.
I might be completely wrong about this, but i recall a vatican expert imply that while the pope is still alive, the chances of a successor being appointed is very unlikely. |
What the "vatican expert" was likely getting at was that the pope would not be asked/forced to give up the papalcy. No pope has ever been forced out of office (except for those popes that were assassinated... there have been quite a few and even more who died suspiciously).
While the pope is alive and is the pope they cannot elect (NOTE, ELECT NOT APPOINT) a new pope. If, however, JPII resigns his position as the pope then there is in fact no pope thus a new pope can be elected. Again this is not common but there is nothing in the vatican's doctrine or constitution preventing such a thing. It has happened before (one of the Piuses I believe, he was caught several times having prostitutes into his apartment.... he left the church to prevent further disgrace). |
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| rabbitjoker |
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...-gregis_en.html
Go read the UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS.
PART ONE
THE VACANCY OF THE APOSTOLIC SEE
"1. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, the College of Cardinals has no power or jurisdiction in matters which pertain to the Supreme Pontiff during his lifetime or in the exercise of his office; such matters are to be reserved completely and exclusively to the future Pope."
"2. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, the government of the Church is entrusted to the College of Cardinals solely for the dispatch of ordinary business and of matters which cannot be postponed (cf. No. 6), and for the preparation of everything necessary for the election of the new Pope." |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...-gregis_en.html
Go read the UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS.
PART ONE
THE VACANCY OF THE APOSTOLIC SEE
"1. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, the College of Cardinals has no power or jurisdiction in matters which pertain to the Supreme Pontiff during his lifetime or in the exercise of his office; such matters are to be reserved completely and exclusively to the future Pope."
"2. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, the government of the Church is entrusted to the College of Cardinals solely for the dispatch of ordinary business and of matters which cannot be postponed (cf. No. 6), and for the preparation of everything necessary for the election of the new Pope." |
BOOK II. THE PEOPLE OF GOD LIBER II. DE POPULO DEI
PART II. THE HIERARCHICAL CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH
SECTION I. THE SUPREME AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 330 - 367)
CHAPTER I. THE ROMAN PONTIFF AND THE COLLEGE OF BISHOPS
Art. 1. THE ROMAN PONTIFF
Previous - Next
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Click here to show the links to concordance
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Art. 1.
THE ROMAN PONTIFF
Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.
Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.
§2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he can resign.... thanks RJ |
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| rabbitjoker |
Guessing, referencing fictional accounts and propagating inaccuracies (and stereotypes) of a religion really isn’t necessary (or respectful).
If you are Catholic – do your religion a favor and at least speak about it in a factual way. If you’re not Catholic – ask questions, seek knowledge but have the respect to refrain from disseminating incorrect information. |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Guessing, referencing fictional accounts and propagating inaccuracies (and stereotypes) of a religion really isn’t necessary (or respectful).
If you are Catholic – do your religion a favor and at least speak about it in a factual way. If you’re not Catholic – ask questions, seek knowledge but have the respect to refrain from disseminating incorrect information. |
right. the TOTA Pope has spoken. 'here' 'here'! :p |
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| Jem_hadar |
This is jokes... i love it...
so glad im an atheist! :D |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
You mean the hunt for Red October never happened??! :eek: :toothless |
but sean connery was soo good in taht:stongue: :nervous: |
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by smuncky
but sean connery was soo good in taht:stongue: :nervous: |
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE what about Alec Baldwin...come one!!! HE HAD to be real!!! :eek: |
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| nycionx |
| haha, check out last nights south park. has to do with kenny and life support:haha: |
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