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Bt vs. Whiteroom (pg. 4)
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View this Thread in Original format
| twisted |
You were around when "true" trance came out. You just ignored it, because you only listen to popular music. True trance is not popular music.
They're all ripoffs in the sense that they just take the ideas of respectable artists before them who had integrity and water them down with elements that cater to a popular audience.
Every epic trance track wants to make you happy and lucky joy-joy using sancharine throwaway stick-in-your-head melodies, like other silly edm. And all songs played on Soft Rock 98.9FM. But unlike eurodance, or italo, or happy hardcore, everyone involved with epic trance wants to believe that their music is somehow more evolved, when it's not. It's trite and derivative of itself for one. It's overblown and as the pop music it is, tries to pull your emotions out of you and tell you what to feel. That is not trance.
"Trance can be emotional, but it is always hypnotic and yes, relatively more repetitive. If someone cries or gets the shivers when they hear a real trance track, it's because they did it because they wanted to, not because of the overblown pop melody that lasts 256 bars.
Musically, trance has always been built on arpeggio. Arpeggiated melody is to trance what the guitar is to rock music. A lot of tracks that are called trance don't even have that. More are arpeggiated somewhere, but those effects are relegated to the background in favor of the, you guessed it, "supersaw" produced by the magically evolved uber synth JP-8000. Since 1998 or earlier, the intro/breakdown/build/anthem FORMULA has been set in stone for every single epic trance track. How to make an epic trance track: Think of a catchy melody, think of a repetitive intro, think of a few chords to play during the 90 second beatless breakdown, and bring it all back with your catchy anthem melody for the body.
And to be honest, most of epic trance is still trance, albeit really formulaic overblown pop trance. But the really bad tracks like Rank 1 - Airwave or System F - Exhale or Gouryella - Ligaya, are NOT TRANCE at all. Why not...no arpeggiation."
- mandragoran (discogs forum)
give or take a couple things from there and i think you have a pretty accurate description of what trance today is. i think it will be hard to find someone who listened to trance in the Eye-Q era, listening to the stuff most notoriously canned by all those commercial trance djs nowasays. it seems that the people who listen to this trance music are the only ones defending as they do. what ive said in my past posts is just a theory (among other things)...how people discover trance, find themselves in this glorious state of music, and slowly drift out of it. thats what has happened to me, and if this theory rings true on any level, you just havnt progressed enough. likewise with alot of you out there. its just some degree of denial. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| Pop is short for "popular". If some types of trance are becoming more popular, so be it. Music evolves. |
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| twisted |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Good melody and beauty in a trance song IS what makes it hypnotic. If a song is just a bunch of repetitive beat, that's annoying, not trance-inducing. The combination of the two is what gives the great sensation. |
who says its not trance inducing? techno is pretty hypnotic to me! do you even listen to it? could you even tell it all apart? i wonder who would say such a thing...surely you dont...listen to trance?! im just curious to know how far people defending there beloved music have come on the journey of discovering EDM. again, if my theory tests true, not far. its not often you see someone start with...john cage, and then in a couple years find themselves listen to trance. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by twisted
You were around when "true" trance came out. You just ignored it, because you only listen to popular music. True trance is not popular music.
They're all ripoffs in the sense that they just take the ideas of respectable artists before them who had integrity and water them down with elements that cater to a popular audience.
Every epic trance track wants to make you happy and lucky joy-joy using sancharine throwaway stick-in-your-head melodies, like other silly edm. And all songs played on Soft Rock 98.9FM. But unlike eurodance, or italo, or happy hardcore, everyone involved with epic trance wants to believe that their music is somehow more evolved, when it's not. It's trite and derivative of itself for one. It's overblown and as the pop music it is, tries to pull your emotions out of you and tell you what to feel. That is not trance.
"Trance can be emotional, but it is always hypnotic and yes, relatively more repetitive. If someone cries or gets the shivers when they hear a real trance track, it's because they did it because they wanted to, not because of the overblown pop melody that lasts 256 bars.
Musically, trance has always been built on arpeggio. Arpeggiated melody is to trance what the guitar is to rock music. A lot of tracks that are called trance don't even have that. More are arpeggiated somewhere, but those effects are relegated to the background in favor of the, you guessed it, "supersaw" produced by the magically evolved uber synth JP-8000. Since 1998 or earlier, the intro/breakdown/build/anthem FORMULA has been set in stone for every single epic trance track. How to make an epic trance track: Think of a catchy melody, think of a repetitive intro, think of a few chords to play during the 90 second beatless breakdown, and bring it all back with your catchy anthem melody for the body.
And to be honest, most of epic trance is still trance, albeit really formulaic overblown pop trance. But the really bad tracks like Rank 1 - Airwave or System F - Exhale or Gouryella - Ligaya, are NOT TRANCE at all. Why not...no arpeggiation."
- mandragoran (discogs forum)
give or take a couple things from there and i think you have a pretty accurate description of what trance today is. i think it will be hard to find someone who listened to trance in the Eye-Q era, listening to the stuff most notoriously canned by all those commercial trance djs nowasays. it seems that the people who listen to this trance music are the only ones defending as they do. what ive said in my past posts is just a theory (among other things)...how people discover trance, find themselves in this glorious state of music, and slowly drift out of it. thats what has happened to me, and if this theory rings true on any level, you just havnt progressed enough. likewise with alot of you out there. its just some degree of denial. |
And where do we all end up after our progression? Unless you can define that, then everything else is meaningless. |
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| Aiwendil |
| my opinions are all i have, without them, all i am is a lifeless robot who goes through life listening to schranz 24/7. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
my opinions are all i have, without them, all i am is a lifeless robot who goes through life listening to schranz 24/7. |
as long as you admit that. |
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| twisted |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
And where do we all end up after our progression? Unless you can define that, then everything else is meaningless. |
i dont think there is an end to it. as long as you listen to music, your going to be constantly discovering new things, while once and a while hanging on to one thing or another. in paticular, people seem to grab on to trance because its the most forgiving...anyone can listen to it. its simple, and it makes you feel good...for a while. i dont see why most people wouldnt start there. but its pretty doubtfull your going to stick to one thing till music isnt a part of your life. |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
as long as you admit that. |
that was a little joke really...but...
assuming you know the difference between a fact and an opinion. i've never seen you say anything that isn't your opinion either. but telling me that doesn't dismiss anything i say. you'll notice that i never tell anyone to PROVE anything with FACTS like a moron. when i want to, i try to take apart their ideas in a more effective and intelligent way.
when all you're left with is "give me facts, prove it or else you're wrong", then you lost a long time ago. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by twisted
i dont think there is an end to it. as long as you listen to music, your going to be constantly discovering new things, while once and a while hanging on to one thing or another. in paticular, people seem to grab on to trance because its the most forgiving...anyone can listen to it. its simple, and it makes you feel good...for a while. i dont see why most people wouldnt start there. but its pretty doubtfull your going to stick to one thing till music isnt a part of your life. |
soo basically what you are saying is that there is no end. Meaning that everything that you listen to is just as formulatic & cheezy as trance, and you will eventually move on. Im sure what ever you listen to now makes you feel good. As will the next type of music that you listen to... |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
that was a little joke really...but...
assuming you know the difference between a fact and an opinion. i've never seen you say anything that isn't your opinion either. but telling me that doesn't dismiss anything i say. you'll notice that i never tell anyone to PROVE anything with FACTS like a moron. when i want to, i try to take apart their ideas in a more effective and intelligent way.
when all you're left with is "give me facts, prove it or else you're wrong", then you lost a long time ago. |
what are you even trying to say here?:conf: |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
what are you even trying to say here?:conf: |
that you would lose in anything resembling a prober debate. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
that you would lose in anything resembling a prober debate. |
This is TA there are not "prober" debates. Anyway debates in Politics or everywhere else are full of just as much bs as you have said here. |
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