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This just in..Liberals tried to bribe another conservative (pg. 2)
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| Jayx1 |
| interesting... i wonder if anyone will care.. this will be a true test at whether or not we have reached dictatorship status. Remember that dictators are always above their own laws. |
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| djeso |
| quote: | Originally posted by walkindude
you guys need to chiLL!!! Yeah, the Liberals are corrupt, so is every politician (including the conservatives), how do you know this guy isnt making this crap up? |
If you beleive that every guvernment is corrupt, then you leave no room for hope for a better one. I'm not into politics, but one thing for sure if people let any guvernment get away with something that has been caught in the public, it's wrong, because you'll let them know that they can get away with it and they'll do it again, just like raising a child, if you let them get away with doing bad things, the child will think it's ok and continue doing it. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by djeso
If you beleive that every guvernment is corrupt, then you leave no room for hope for a better one. I'm not into politics, but one thing for sure if people let any guvernment get away with something that has been caught in the public, it's wrong, because you'll let them know that they can get away with it and they'll do it again, just like raising a child, if you let them get away with doing bad things, the child will think it's ok and continue doing it. |
One of the best posts I've seen on this subject. |
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| MarkT |
I look forward to the examination of the audio evidence...of course it will be some intermediary who can't be ID'd...making it impossible to prove their claims actually came from the Liberals...and making it equally impossible for the Liberals to disprove the claims.
Couldn't we take this same thread and title it more like: "This just in...Liberals are accused of bribing an opposition MP right after the Tory party leader was suddenly embarassed by the defection off one of his own MPs and is now desperate to regain positive media coverage"?
anyway...if there's evidence, there's evidence...and more info will be learned...until then, I'd be wary of jumping to conclusions (re: title of this thread) |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I look forward to the examination of the audio evidence...of course it will be some intermediary who can't be ID'd...making it impossible to prove their claims actually came from the Liberals...and making it equally impossible for the Liberals to disprove the claims.
Couldn't we take this same thread and title it more like: "This just in...Liberals are accused of bribing an opposition MP right after the Tory party leader was suddenly embarassed by the defection off one of his own MPs and is now desperate to regain positive media coverage"?
anyway...if there's evidence, there's evidence...and more info will be learned...until then, I'd be wary of jumping to conclusions (re: title of this thread) |
I already posted the evidence... look 6 posts up
The person has already been ID'd as Martin Chief-of-Staff Tim Murphy... supposedly the longer version of the tape has Health Minister Dusanjh on it as well... the tape also references Immigration Minister Volpe. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
I already posted the evidence... look 6 posts up
The person has already been ID'd as Martin Chief-of-Staff Tim Murphy... supposedly the longer version of the tape has Health Minister Dusanjh on it as well... the tape also references Immigration Minister Volpe. |
did I miss something in my state of non-sobriety? :conf:
who has ID'd the person on the tape...the ACCUSER? if so, that's not evidence, that's a claim that requires evidence to be proven true.
"supposedly the longer version..." (sentences which begin with the word 'suppose' or 'supposedly' generally reference *suppositions*, not facts)
"the tape also references..." (you mean the tape that he alleges to have...and which no one of any judicial consequence has yet heard?)
again...I'll wait for the evidence to be examined if the tape has not been produced and verified. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
did I miss something in my state of non-sobriety? :conf: |
More like a state of denial...
| quote: | who has ID'd the person on the tape...the ACCUSER? if so, that's not evidence, that's a claim that requires evidence to be proven true.
"supposedly the longer version..." (sentences which begin with the word 'suppose' or 'supposedly' generally reference *suppositions*, not facts)
"the tape also references..." (you mean the tape that he alleges to have...and which no one of any judicial consequence has yet heard?)
again...I'll wait for the evidence to be examined if the tape has not been produced and verified. |
Tim Murphy publically admitted it was him in the tape.
http://www.politicswatch.com/grewal-may18-2005.htm
http://cybermenace.blogspot.com/200...and-get-it.html |
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| ShadoWolf |
It should be noted that a few weeks ago Minister Volpe asked the RCMP to investigate Grewal on another matter. The reference to Volpe means: "If you accept our offer, I'll call off the hounds. If you don't, you are on your own." The question is: if Volpe can interfere in an ongoing RCMP investigation to obtain political ends, did he initiate an RCMP investigation for the same ends?
This is getting scary.
:eek: :eek:
edit: all the more reason to put the RCMP back under Parliament's control... it's currently controlled by the PMO |
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| MarkT |
not denial...I actually did miss those article links (as suggested, in my semi-trashed state...I blaze before wading through the political muck on here at night) and lately haven't made a habit of reading all (many) of your posts in most threads :p
this is interesting indeed then...I'm somewhat less concerned at the suggestion that a cabinet position or reward is implied or dangled, yet doesn't exist...and more concerned if actual positions or rewards are up for grabs. Sounds the same, but I consider the latter to be more explicitly unethical while the former, while shady, is more desperate than anything.
Stronach being given a position after 'defecting' neither proves that multiple seats actually are 'up for grabs' nor that her appointment was the result of a bribe rather than negotiated by her for coming over. PMs give such positions to people they deem as political allies *all* the time...not that this is acceptable, but it's reality...so that's not especially troublesome. Bribing people adds another level to that though...
It will be quite interesting to see if this is linked to Stronach's appointment...while the Liberals may survive the vote...that would hurt them in the public eye, no doubt. |
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| psychosomatica |
| I'm still going to ask to abstain my vote. They're all imbeciles. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
This is getting scary.
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You said it... more and more i feel like we live in a banana republic, or worse.
We really need to clean house. At this point i dont even care if its the NDP who gets in :eek: :eek: :eek:
OK no i didnt really just say that LOL |
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| Moral Hazard |
Guys, as distasteful as it is I must point out that this is nothing new to parliamentary democracy. Furthermore, promising appointments or cabinet positions in exchange for crossing the floor or supporting the government is not technically a bribe. This is what we call negotiation.
This is much the same as when a competitor of a company offers more salary or better benefits in order to get an employee change employers. I was offered a promotion, raise, better benefits, more vacation, and a car in order to convince me to join my present employer.... did I take a bribe? Is my employer guilty of a criminal offence?
This is the way of minority governments. I'm not saying that it is not unethical but it certainly is not criminal as has been suggested. |
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