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Dystopian Future... You're predictions (pg. 2)
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
The problem i have with it is that she refers islam, not extreame islam. I would say there is a huge difference, there is no problem with most muslims, there are just the most extreame ones that we have to "watch out for". Saying things like that just makes ppl generalise even more and is very dangerous imo. |
Yes, you're right. However, I think that by "Islam" she's referring to the organized part of the religion in Denmark (i.e. the imams), which (as I tried to hint at) was making excuses for people like the Guantanamo Bay detainee and the killing of the Dutch movie director. Only few individual muslims raised their voice in defense of freedom of speech and renouncement of threats against Denmark - the influential imams did not, and should IMO therefore be seen as in opposition to the values that the Danish society is built on.
EDIT: I did a quick investiagation of the matters described above, and it seems like one imam actually did renounce the ramblings of the Guantanamo Bay detainee, only not in a very clear way. Anyway, ought to be mentioned, I think. |
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| kush paintings |
| It also ought to be mentioned that the thread is officially hijacked. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by kush paintings
It also ought to be mentioned that the thread is officially hijacked. |
Haha. Blame ShadoWolf - he started the derailment. Furthermore, he's used to being blamed for all things bad in this forum.;)
| quote: | Originally posted by kush paintings
What do you think the future will be like? What concepts from these dystopias do you find interesting? |
I haven't read the books, so I can't comment on your last question. As to the first: I find it hard to imagine what the future will be like - and I think that it is mentally unsound to come up with a guess (it's the first step down the path to being a lunatic doomsday prophet). |
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| kush paintings |
| Well there is the lunatic doomsday prophet and then there are people who make a hypothesis based on rising trends we see in society. For example, I don't know if you are familiar with the theory of the McDonaldization of society, based on Marxism, but it states that captilalism will ultimately lead to the alienation of workers and consumers in society. This theory is well supported with examples in the workplace today. It would not be unreasoable to believe that this trend will only continue to grow in the future, as capitalism spreads throughout the global economy. That is one very basic prediction, that I don't believe sounds anything like a doomsday prophet, rather a worried observer. Keep in mind I'm not asking for end of the world scenerios, simply what will society be like. |
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| trancaholic |
I think there's a long way from stating that McDonaldization is probable to a shot at "how society would be like". To answer that last part you also need to make up your mind on a lot of other issues, such as
- will there continue to be countries?
- how will pollution affect daily life?
- will there be democracy?
- how will humankind deal with resource shortage?
- (most important) will we have flying cars?
and so forth. While I have vague expectations on each of them, they are so riddled with uncertainty and lack of details, that they do not add up to a full image of how society would be like. |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Booorrring. |
Shakka! Thats so unlike you. Now apologize and go back to ignoring threads you don't find interest in. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
Shakka! Thats so unlike you. Now apologize and go back to ignoring threads you don't find interest in. |
Lol. This thread has evolved. The topic starter sounded like nothing more than fishing around in some cliche "utopian" type books/films. Please carry on with my deepest apologies!;) |
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| kush paintings |
| Well Shakka after crying myself to sleep last night, I have regrouped and tried to give this thread more direction. I believe the whole European Union concept is interesting to look at, when considering what will future countries be like. I believe there will be far less countries in the future, although it may not even be neccesary, as McDonaldization, that is the product you get in Bangledesh is the same in New York, will not even make eliminating official borders neccesary. What I am most fascinated with, however, is who will be the enemy of the future. What intrigues me about all of these dystopian books is that the enemy is always unseen, and most if not all of the civilians don't have any idea what the progress is in the wars (always constant) is, other than what propaganda is fed to them. I can see this happening with the war on terror. It transforms into this thing where the enemy is no longer seen, but the government instills fear in the people to gain more and more power. |
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| trancaholic |
@St_Andrew: Another example of how "official" Islam in Denmark goes against the ideals which our society builds on:
From Danish Radio
| quote: | Politicians reject Imam's proposal of blood money
Integration Minister, Rikke Hvilshøj, has rejected a proposal from Imam Abu Laban that blood money be paid to the family of a man who was killed in Nørrebro last weekend and whose funeral takes place today.
Since the shooting of the 24 year old and the wounding of his older brother, there has been much speculation among police and in the press about when revenge would be taken.
But according to the Imam, who is conducting the funeral ceremony today, the thirst for revenge could be cooled if 200,000 kroner were paid either by the family of the doorman who fired the shots or by the Islamic community. He said the practice of paying blood money to the family of a deceased person was normal in Muslim societies. Rikke Hvilshøj says such action could harm the entire integration process in Denmark. |
Gangs of young non-integrated immigrants are fighting over the drug market, and they apparently use quite drastic measures to weed out competition. Last week a bouncer and some other guy was chased down a blind alley by a bunch of young immigrants, known for their involvement in the drug scene, and the bouncer shot two of them in what he claims is self defence. In Denmark we deal with things like that by arresting the bouncer and putting him on trial. Not by having his family pay money to the family of the slain boy. I think these sorts of suggestions for modification of the Danish society, are what the Queen is alluding to. |
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| metalgearsolid |
okey wtf:wtf: this was suppose to be about future governments like the ones shown in 1984 and starship troopers. Europeans shouldnt be worried abut the growth of islam in thier areas. I think in some 50yrs Islam will be the religion with the most ppl following it and most of the muslims will be in Africa if any1 should be concerned about the evil muslims it shoudl the africans becasue catholisicm is big and them two will not get along and they will end up fighting oneanother(here we go again another ING crusade). Anyways that comment made by that Danish queen what a ing ignorant bitch. Most ppl need to be educated that Islam is not a violent religion.
And in conclusion to my blabbering i will have to say this Religion like conspiracie theories is something for the weak to believe in because they are lonely |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
@St_Andrew: Another example of how "official" Islam in Denmark goes against the ideals which our society builds on:
From Danish Radio
Gangs of young non-integrated immigrants are fighting over the drug market, and they apparently use quite drastic measures to weed out competition. Last week a bouncer and some other guy was chased down a blind alley by a bunch of young immigrants, known for their involvement in the drug scene, and the bouncer shot two of them in what he claims is self defence. In Denmark we deal with things like that by arresting the bouncer and putting him on trial. Not by having his family pay money to the family of the slain boy. I think these sorts of suggestions for modification of the Danish society, are what the Queen is alluding to. |
I see what you mean. Of course basic values like that should never be compromised. But really, if you did a poll in the muslim community, im pretty sure you would get an overhelming support of putting him on trial rather than paying money to the victims. Its kinda like the pope saying that birth control is wrong, yet most catholics would use it.
But when the queen say stuff like that, it really hurts the whole muslim community a lot, of which the great majority is great ppl with reasonable values (at least thats my impression of all the muslim ppl i know). So I would say that generalizing comments like that is as big or bigger threat to our society than islam itself. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
I see what you mean. Of course basic values like that should never be compromised. But really, if you did a poll in the muslim community, im pretty sure you would get an overhelming support of putting him on trial rather than paying money to the victims. Its kinda like the pope saying that birth control is wrong, yet most catholics would use it.
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I agree with you totally on regular street-level muslims, but still believe that there's a reason for the Queen consistently talking about "Islam" rather than "muslims". I have several muslim friends myself, and they're all secular. However, the "official" heads of their religion in Denmark are fundamentalist nutters. The same cannot be said about the top figures of the main religion (Protestantism), which have accepted that Christianity (while having provided a basic fundament of humanity) has no influence on todays politics. Similarly the heads of Catholicism, Judaeism, and other relatively large religions, do not interfere in the debate about the political aspects of the Danish society today. They have so far yet to denounce psycho behaviour of their fellow believers, but then again there has not been any major religiously motivated law-breaking in Denmark by these believers. In fact, the only religions I can think of, which has had followers doing bad things, are Satanism, Jehova's witnesses, and Islam. And of these three, only Islam is supposedly a modern, open, and peaceful religion.
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
But when the queen say stuff like that, it really hurts the whole muslim community a lot, of which the great majority is great ppl with reasonable values (at least thats my impression of all the muslim ppl i know). So I would say that generalizing comments like that is as big or bigger threat to our society than islam itself. |
I would agree, if anyone would uncritically take the Queen's statements as basis of their own belief system. However, the only Danes who really worship the royal family, are the elderly, and they are generally the most racist people in Denmark anyway. So I think the damage is limited. However, part of the agreement between the royal family and Denmark, is that it's members are not allowed to publicly comment on political issues, so she should have kept her mouth shut. |
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