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Lost a Liberal
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| miketg23 |
| Well the Libs have lost my vote. I usually wait till the time of election to make my decission, but this can't go on anymore. They have become too comfortable in their position, and believe that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. I am upset that it has to come to this because I believe that they have been the best government our economy has seen in a long time. Since they came into power, Canada has not had better times in recent years (not buying the "rode the American economy" BS as they have recessed in years, where we have maintained a boom since the late '90s). Canada had not see worse times than when we were under Brian Mulrooney's Conservative leadership since the 1930's. Next election time I have to choose between socially irresponsible tories, and the fiscally inept NDP. Maybe I will just vote for the marijuana party. |
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| rabbitjoker |
Lost a liberal? :(
Let me help you find 'em. Where have you looked? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
Canada had not see worse times than when we were under Brian Mulrooney's Conservative leadership since the 1930's. |
Are you kidding me????
Were you not around in the Trudeau years when inflation was 5% and interest rates were 14%? Trudeau also started the decline of the canadian dollar which until then was worth MORE than the US dollar. Trudeau also started the ire of seperatism. Not to mention the recession of 1982 which was actually the second worst ever in canada's history. Mulroney was nothing special but dont tell me that we were so hard done by during that time. |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Are you kidding me????
Were you not around in the Trudeau years when inflation was 5% and interest rates were 14%? Trudeau also started the decline of the canadian dollar which until then was worth MORE than the US dollar. Trudeau also started the ire of seperatism. Not to mention the recession of 1982 which was actually the second worst ever in canada's history. Mulroney was nothing special but dont tell me that we were so hard done by during that time. |
Inflation in 1975 was actually near 14%
The dollar is not a good measure of how well an economy is doing on its own as 1998-2004 have prooved
The real measures for "good" and "bad" times are unemployment and bankruptcies. In the early ninetys Canada experienced the highest levels of these since the depression.During the seventies Canada was going through a time of massive growth, We were actually out buying the supply. This is what caused high levels of intrest and inflation. This is what is known as the blind hand of the free market. When demand is greater than the ability to supply, higher intrest rates and increase in prices will occur in order to curb spending. In the early ninetys tories, in order to raise the dollar value, increased intrest rates to nearly 10% prime. Unfortunately or economy was headed towards stagnation or recession. Foriegn investment in our dollar went up, but local investment; mortgages, car sales, construction, investment by business took a nose dive. This is what caused our greatest recession since the depression. If you don't know how bad the ninetys were, than maybe you should look into it. Many people lost their, jobs, homes, and businesses. |
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| Jayx1 |
when i was referring to inflation i was taking it from the recessionary times of the early 80s (as early as i can remember)
But you raise a good point.
Remember though that the 2 provinces hit hardest were run by NDP provincial governments at the time. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | | During the seventies Canada was going through a time of massive growth, |
From the late 60's until now, GDP growth has been between 2-7% band, with the exception of the years around the 1982 and 1991 recessions. The 70's were not much better than the 80's as you claim.
THe thing is, the growth in the 1970's was "fake" - it was based on money that we did not have. The Trudeau Liberals ruined the finances of the country by racking up so much debt.
Mulroney did the hard work of starting to bring down the deficit (not enough IMO). In the 90's, the Lieberals just continued the work that Mulroney started in the 80's.
http://www.la-mancha.net/archives/000324.html
HOWEVER, the Lieberals did it in a dishonest way. The deficits that Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin claim credit for reducing were created in the first place by one of their own, namely Pierre Elliott Trudeau. All they did was to cut services, cut the military, and download expenses to the provinces, which downloaded them, in turn, to municipalities.
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
In the early ninetys tories, in order to raise the dollar value, increased intrest rates to nearly 10% prime. |
Interest rates are set by the Bank of Canada, not the government.
The Bank of Canada raised rates to combat inflation, not necessarily to raise the value of the dollar. Inflation rises exponentially, so it has to be dealt with quickly.
| quote: | | Unfortunately or economy was headed towards stagnation or recession. Foriegn investment in our dollar went up, but local investment; mortgages, car sales, construction, investment by business took a nose dive. This is what caused our greatest recession since the depression. If you don't know how bad the ninetys were, than maybe you should look into it. Many people lost their, jobs, homes, and businesses. |
Except that the 1982 recession was actually deeper. GDP growth was more negative in the '82 recession than the '91 recession.
In short, your belief that the Lieberals are fiscal wizards is mistaken. The Lieberals created the problem, Mulroney started to address it, then in the 90's the Lieberals downloaded the problem onto the provinces (and cut military, health, etc.). Now we have a major problem with the "fiscal imbalance." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertic...lance_in_Canada |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
Since they came into power, Canada has not had better times in recent years (not buying the "rode the American economy" BS as they have recessed in years, where we have maintained a boom since the late '90s). |
Nonsense.
per-capita analysis versus U.S.:
http://www.demographia.com/db-ppp60+.htm
growth rates (not how from 1960-1997, Canada was LAST... Korea first)
http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publicati...section_10.html
| quote: | | Canada had not see worse times than when we were under Brian Mulrooney's Conservative leadership since the 1930's. |
again, the 1982 recession was deeper in terms of GDP growth (negative)
| quote: | | socially irresponsible tories, |
how so? specific policies, please
| quote: | | Maybe I will just vote for the marijuana party. |
is right-wing and filled with ex-Reformers :haha:
that said, you hit the nail on the head in terms of Lieberal scandal... but remember the other scandals other than AdScam (much worse IMO). |
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| TrueToTheCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
Well the Libs have lost my vote. I usually wait till the time of election to make my decission, but this can't go on anymore. They have become too comfortable in their position, and believe that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. I am upset that it has to come to this because I believe that they have been the best government our economy has seen in a long time. Since they came into power, Canada has not had better times in recent years (not buying the "rode the American economy" BS as they have recessed in years, where we have maintained a boom since the late '90s). Canada had not see worse times than when we were under Brian Mulrooney's Conservative leadership since the 1930's. Next election time I have to choose between socially irresponsible tories, and the fiscally inept NDP. Maybe I will just vote for the marijuana party. |
Did you know it takes an average of 8 years for the implications of our government's fiscal policies to come to fruition. So, our booming economy could of had something to do with Mulroney's gov and the bridges built with our biggest trading partner.
Also, why do people not realize that the Liberals 8 balanced budgets is because they stole 34 Billion from Canadian pensions. |
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| Jayx1 |
A lot of people will believe anything a Liberal tells them it seems.
(and the media) |
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| joinT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
A lot of people will believe anything (the media) tells them it seems.
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this at least is embarrassingly true.. |
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| aarontrance |
The lesser of the left/right evils is currently the Conservative Party, whom will be getting my vote.
Being a student health-care professional, I would actually like to see two tiers of health care to reduce wait times in BOTH tiers. If people can pay, let them pay and fund the social hospitals from that revenue. Anything but the current system, where my friends that are Paramedics wait up to 14 hours at the ER in patient off-load delay.
You know something is wrong when the majority of Canadian skilled doctors end up in the States. We will never end up with 40%+ uninsured for healthcare like in the states. |
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| Jayx1 |
Most people in the health care field WANT 2-tier and not because they think they will get paid more. It's because they see first hand what a mess this experiment that we have had for 35 years has become.
We already have 2 tier medicine anyways. This is why you need private insurance for things like chiropractic, dental. physio, eye exams etc etc. among a host of other things not covered by OHIP. |
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