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sooooooo, what should a possible next constitution look like?
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| St_Andrew |
I have been thinking, but not come up with any good answer yet, i have some ideas, but im not sure... trying to get it together, im pretty damn tierd right now tho, so hopefully tomorrow it will be clearer.. hehe :D
is it possible to make a constitution that pass by all countries? or is the EU doomed to fail? i mean we could continue like we have it now too, but if we were to vote about the current treaties, i guess that would mean "no"s too considering the arguments against the constitution? or is it just a matter of waiting till ppl realises they are wrong? many questions arises!
anyway, brainstorm! |
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| NeoPhono |
Article 1: See United States
The End
What do you think? |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
Article 1: See United States
The End
What do you think? |
Can you give me a link? I would really hate to have your political/electoral system, but am unsure of how much of that is rooted in your constitution, its ammendments, and elsewhere.
On topic: I think the same treaty would be great. It was basically a utility treaty, with little controversy inside, meant for making the EU bureaucracy more efficient. Maybe a new treaty could have an added clause stating that elections on individual matters should be outlawed, that election periods should be for at least eight years, and that you had to pass a simple yes/no quiz before being allowed into the voting booth.:)
However, I think that what was in the constitution is insignificant wrt. stupid people voting no. What we need is another 50 years of globalization for stupid peopl to get into the right mindset/die out. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
I have been thinking, but not come up with any good answer yet, i have some ideas, but im not sure... trying to get it together, im pretty damn tierd right now tho, so hopefully tomorrow it will be clearer.. hehe :D
is it possible to make a constitution that pass by all countries? or is the EU doomed to fail? i mean we could continue like we have it now too, but if we were to vote about the current treaties, i guess that would mean "no"s too considering the arguments against the constitution? or is it just a matter of waiting till ppl realises they are wrong? many questions arises!
anyway, brainstorm! |
Well it all depends,
what does Europe who to achieve by forming the EU?
Is it soley a economic organization or do they wish it to be one nation under which many states exist as a confederacy or as a federation? |
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| Renegade |
| I think the only real solution (from my limited understanding of what's happenning in Europe atm) is create a constitution that allows each nation as much autonomy as possible, while still maintaining - as far as possible - a unified economic system. People (and this is the same anywhere worldwide, not just Europe) aren't going to vote for an initiative if they feel that doing so means ceding their national autonomy to people of a different culture. I haven't been following this issue closely, so I could be way off the mark, but I'd imagine that this might explain a lot of the negative sentiment in places like France, Holland and the UK. In short, institute a bare-bones constitution and add to it gradually (in a series of referenda) as people become less skeptical. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Can you give me a link? I would really hate to have your political/electoral system, but am unsure of how much of that is rooted in your constitution, its ammendments, and elsewhere.
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http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/constitution/
The articles lay the groundwork for the structure of the government (states rights vs. federal rights) while most of the amendments detail the rights granted to people. |
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| Renegade |
Missed this first time around:
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Can you give me a link? I would really hate to have your political/electoral system, but am unsure of how much of that is rooted in your constitution, its ammendments, and elsewhere. |
Read this. It should, if you're anything like me, give you an appreciation for just what monumental acheivements the late 18th century post-monarchical French and post-revolutionary American constitutions were for their time. I was always fairly skeptical about the supposed greatness of the US constitution (you know how Americans are when it comes to patriotism ;)) but reading this really did give me an insight into just how amazingly progressive the American and French constitutions were for their day and how influencial they've been in the development of democracies elsewhere.
Also, the US constitution has a Bill of Rights going in its favour, which is more than can be said for a lot of countries (including Australia)... :( |
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| svens_bath |
| i think what europe needs is a mission statement typr of thing..not a constitution. im sure this has already been raised but a constitution comes from the bottom up, not the top down like this one is. as we have seen..the 'bottom' dont want it. |
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| trancaholic |
| occrider & Renegade: Thanks. I'll read them in full when I get some hours for myself. At least before the Danish referendum on the EU constitution in september. :) |
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| St_Andrew |
Okay, so i have been thinking some more without any good thought, and the only real solution is to wait till ppl realise how stupid they are...
EU is really in a catch 22 situation. the idea is that the EU should only solve problems that only can be solved on a wider basis. The only problem is, these issues are issues that are generally considered boring, and issues that most ppl dont care about. the average person care about issues that affects them, most EU things doesnt that much (at least not as obvious as the more local ones). So this makes EU far away from the average citizen, so to improve this i guess they should care about other issues, but then the whole point of the EU is gone imo, and ppl would get pissed about that instead... so whatever they do, they will get impopular... so just because they are so impoular, things like voteing no to this constitution happens, and because it happens, things that are bad about the EU wont imporve... etc...
anyway, im insanly tierd again, nighty :p |
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| Yoepus |
| i dunno, I've gotten to a phase where I believe all the people that blame the failure of one thing or another due to the fact that "everyone or almost everyone is an idiot" are idiots themselves, otherwise they'd drill down and look for real reasons. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
i dunno, I've gotten to a phase where I believe all the people that blame the failure of one thing or another due to the fact that "everyone or almost everyone is an idiot" are idiots themselves, otherwise they'd drill down and look for real reasons. |
i agree, or +1 as it's known around here |
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