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Osama Bin Laden video tape released (pg. 5)
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by davinox
well...in my oppinion, most everyone's post has been ridiculous...
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...If this was an attempt to improve thae situation, I must say I don't think you've succeeded.
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So, now after an attack bigger than Pearl Harbor, on the superpower, on the U.N., from a government and organization Nazi-esque, and we AREN'T SPOSSED TO DECLARE WAR?
"Yes Hitler, we are not declaring war on you, even though you tried to destroy the main nexus of our country, and killed thousands of people, and plan to do it again..."
That's plain unrealistic. Any pascifist should look at a History book. Obviously America wouldn't be around without war....
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From memory, the majority of posts on this thread discuss the extent of any attack. I, for one, have never said that a military attack is unwarranted - I completely support the US government in their actions. I have simply said that I am opposed to tiesto14's desire to engage in the kind of attack that goes out of its way to cause, rather than minimise collateral damage.
Also we must remember that WWII was a completely different situation. Hitler was a democratically elected leader, who throughout the conflict had the support of the majority. There is no indication that Taliban/Al Quaeda have the support of the population of Afghanistan - that's why US forces are engaging in precise actions against those that support terrorism, rather thanblindly going in and bombing/shooting every Afghani in sight.
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And to those saying killing is "doing what Bin Laden wants,", that's ludacris! Bin Laden thought he would win, BECAUSE of pacifists! He thought America would be weak, and not fight back! Now that we did, the Muslim nation actually RESPECTS US MORE. He said America was a "paper tiger, and weak."
America is being very leinient, it could do what tiesto14 would do... , Russia, China, or anyother country for that matter, would.
It seems people expect America to give the most, AND get beat up the most, show the most restraint. We are a country, and need to stand up for ourself.
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Spelling errors aside - Yes I agree that it is good that the western world is taking a tougher stance on terrorism and showing that it will not be tolerated. However the lengths to which tiesto14 would go to are definitely unjustified.
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I know much more people have died because of other things, some "caused" by America, but please. War is not "make sure people lose the same ammount of people, make sure it's fair."
I'm sorry for the Afganis, they've suffered alot of . Is it America's responsibility to fix that? NO.
Noone was bitching to America before the 11th to fix the situation in Afghanistan, so why care now that we are leaving them with the Northern Alliance? It's no hair off our back. Why doesn't China do it? Oh wait...no...let's give it to America, who's been ATTACKED by them.
Let's leave America alone, and let America stand up for itself. |
Most of the deaths caused by the US, referred to in previous posts, did not arise directly out of war, and could have been avoided without detracting from the goal.
Afghanis HAVE suffered a lot of , and most of it is the responsibility of America. The US tended to quietly lend its support to anyone fighting against any Communist regime. And when the opposition regime which they have been supporting take power and end up being even worse than the commies, the US conveniently slips away and denies any responsibility.
Chile, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq........ <- all examples of problems at least added to by the US. And all things for which the US should not deny reponsibility. Yes it should be able to stand up for itself - but there are different ways of standing up for yourself, all of them leave behind a different kind of mess. It IS the responsibility of the nation that left the mess behind to clean it up and monitor it. Even US military officials admit this. Few officials, however, are willing to admitt that they may be actively helping a regime even worse than the Taliban gain power. |
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| DJAhmet |
Ok guys, time for me to add my 10 cents worth... Havent read all your posts cos some are way long... Sorry if repeating somethign thats already been said.
Firstly i am Muslim.... If any of u want to hold that against me i dont really care, seeing as Bin Laden ed up all Muslims Reputations anyways...
I hate this guy and would like to say he is not muslim and in our religion it does not state to Bomb America or any country...
Whats been going on in Afganistan and alot of the Arab nations isnt and act of Islam... Women not being bale to get educated, no TV, etc etc is all Bull ...
I am From Turkey, and believe this is the truest Muslim Nation on the world... In Islam you are not ment to force people into Belief, if they want to believe they can, u cant force someone to believe what u believe, this is what the Talibans trying to do, but i dont know what they are trying to accompolish...
For all of u that hate Muslims, i dont blame u after what Bin Laden has made us look like with the help of the Media...
PeaCe and if u have any questions feel free.... |
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| TranceGiant |
"Israel is the main focus between the muslims and the western civilisation and if there is no solution between these two parties, You and me as well, can not sleep without fearing another attack. One problem is, that sharon is not the man who will lead israel to freedom, he is a warlord, nothing else. Because the Israelis are more or less behind sharon, or at least are not willing to replace him with someone better, I think you need UN presence in this country. You may tell me: Look what the Palis did, they need to do the first step. You may be right or wrong it doesnt matter. Israel NEED to do that step because the Palis cant. They have no political order, now even less after arafat is not "accepted" anymore, their government is basically a chaos, the extremes have the power and they are the "suppressed"-> they will not be willing to accept a solution until their main points are fullfilled-own state. do the terror ends afterwards? we could only hope. But you have to take this effort or you will be in endless and intensified problems. "
No, Israel is the Arab World's scapegoat for everything bad that happens and for their own failures and problems concerning politics, economy and humanity. It is sad that the average European believes it after all...Sharon, Sharon, Sharon...Im sick of always mentioning the guy proclaiming to have found the main problem. Sharon is more like a symptome of the war and not its reason. Once again Arab propaganda succeeded all the way. Of ourse Sharon has done loats of "dirty stuff" that cant be justified but that doesnt matter as loong as he was elcted PM in a democratic way. Arafat on the other hand is more like an dictator that is anything else but NOT able to stop the terror. He controls more than 98% of the Palestinians and has more policemen per inhabitants than in any other part of the earth. He was handed lots of guns after signing the Oslo agreemnt in order to STOP those murderers. Now if he lets them free from prisons, if he encourages them to bomb and praises them as martyrs then he(!) is the problem. Then its time for HIM to step back, then its his failure. I dont need to tell ya that Oslo was in fact a second chance for him after he was just another terrorist whose goal it was to completely destroy israel. So its more then obvious that hes never really hanged his attitude. Now why sharon? 2 years ago no1 gave a about the old man. Then the Pal. started their so called Intifada (in fact a dirty ugly guerilla war aiming maximal destruction and gaining the role of the "surpressed underdog") and made the Israeli people seek a change (that would bring back security, so they thought) Their only alternative was sharon and to show u another hypocritical behavior of the arabs(in this case israeli arabs)...Although they make up a sixth of the population NONE of them voted last year making sharon indirectly their next PM.
d"o the terror ends afterwards? we could only hope. But you have to take this effort "
Now, Herr cweb, i suggest you to take a look at the HAMAS-charta and listen to their and the Djihad Islami's statements. Those guys express openly their wish to fully destroy the "zionist entitity", israel. No "occupation" but just drive the jews out. Now if u give them their land, meaning full controll, and think about what has happened after only giving them autonomy in certain parts of the areas, ud realize that this would mean suicide for the jewish state.
Whats my proposal..i donno, i aint see no hope considering all those points above. They key words for the palestinians LEADERS (their people are just brainwashed by the leaders' ideas) should be COMPROMISE and TOLERANCE.
Simple as that (oh, how provoating):p |
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| cweb |
@the Giant:
I KNOW that the Hamas, etc. want to drive the jews into the sea. My problem with Sharon is that he does nothing to stop the war and he is simply not the right person to fight for freedom, he is warlord END. Arafat on the other side is nothing better, youre absolutely right, he was(is?) a terrorist but he seems to be the only "not so extreme" leader of the Palis. As for Sharon being elected on a democratic way, same for Arafat or Im wrong? The problem ist that Israel has to do the first sttep, because on the Palis side I dont see that many people(->leaders) better than Arafat. On Israel there are surley some leaders capable of taking the power and bringing the piece process further than Sharon. But like you I dont think the problem will be solved because there are too much problems (Israel would have to destroy of many settlers->political end for the president), etc. £
Thats why I think the UN must make a drastical step and amke something like a "protektorat". The first step is to give the Palis their own country without restriction like in Oslo (or where) |
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| Miss Proximus |
*continuing TranceGiants signature*
Do I en amuse you? Am I a en clow? What da is so funny about me! :D
lol
Sorry..just had to relive dat movie :D
and er..Ahmet...dun worry....my view of muslims hasn't changed a bit. The only thing changing is that I keep loosing more and more respect for all humans on the world... :( |
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| DJAhmet |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Proximus
[B
and er..Ahmet...dun worry....my view of muslims hasn't changed a bit. The only thing changing is that I keep loosing more and more respect for all humans on the world... :( [/B] |
You just hate me yeah??
:D
Hehehehhe.... |
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| cweb |
| hmm...a UN-Resolution who would have sent a "Security troop" to israel has been trashed by the Veto of the United States of america:( 12 of 15 members of the "world security council" have agreed to this resolution, only GB and Norway have not stated teir opinion, and only the US with their Veto have trashed this. Great!:whip: |
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| Cable |
that pic is a load of bull, anyone who believes that needs to get their eyes checked or stop takin dum pills |
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| davinox |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
Also we must remember that WWII was a completely different situation. Hitler was a democratically elected leader, who throughout the conflict had the support of the majority. There is no indication that Taliban/Al Quaeda have the support of the population of Afghanistan - that's why US forces are engaging in precise actions against those that support terrorism, rather thanblindly going in and bombing/shooting every Afghani in sight.
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umm..only a third of germany was a member of the nazi party. most german's did not know that the Nazi's were killing jews left and right, they were just as in the dark as the afghanis. |
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| davinox |
| quote: | Originally posted by biznology
not to take away from your point any...but its good to see the MTV generation in full effect! :D
trust me...i have avoided using ludicrous many a time because I am never sure how to spell it...late/ |
hehehehe...it was late and i was typing fast...lol!!! |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by davinox
umm..only a third of germany was a member of the nazi party. most german's did not know that the Nazi's were killing jews left and right, they were just as in the dark as the afghanis. |
A party could win power in a democratic election if 33% of the population voted for them. And even if the German population did not know about the massacre of the Jews, they certainly knew about the ideology of white supremacy that was openly preached and promoted by Hitler.
Whether Afghanis were in the dark or not is irrelevant, they were not given the option of choosing a government, the Taliban just took control without asking. |
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