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Interesting.... (pg. 4)
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by disko-kandi
AGAIN, it's the 'WAY' not the 'WHAT'! |
That's meaningless rhetoric. You posted the section yourself - it explicitly says that different people are entitled to different levels of freedom depending on their race/colour/ethnicity/sex/etc.
That's not focusing on what we have in common as a society - it's a divisive clause hell-bent on destroying equal opportunity in the name of guaranteeing equal results (and even if that worked, which it doesn't, it is still anti-individualist).
Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights. |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
That's meaningless rhetoric. You posted the section yourself - it explicitly says that different people are entitled to different levels of freedom depending on their race/colour/ethnicity/sex/etc.
That's not focusing on what we have in common as a society - it's a divisive clause hell-bent on destroying equal opportunity in the name of guaranteeing equal results (and even if that worked, which it doesn't, it is still anti-individualist).
Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights. |
i'm not even going to respond to the blow below the belt b/c that is the whole point of the existence of this thread. and neither am i going to start arguing with you about the interpretation of the charter.
my point is, and it seems i have to repeat myself again, that it is the PEOPLE who make the structure of a society and it is their attitude, respect and acceptance for each other's difference of opinions and beliefs that makes this living organism of a society work.
the charter is merely an instrument which sets out certain parameters that society should use to orient themselves on. (the law is necessary, unfortunately, due to those who choose to overstep certain boundaries just b/c they don't have common sense of what is wrong or right. you don't need a government or a court to tell you this. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights. |
And that is the way it should be. In a society a single individual should not stand alone. However, there are too many groups that think they should have certain rights just because of their unique status. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by disko-kandi
my point is, and it seems i have to repeat myself again, that it is the PEOPLE who make the structure of a society and it is their attitude, respect and acceptance for each other's difference of opinions and beliefs that makes this living organism of a society work. |
I agree completely. It is the INDIVIDUAL that matters in society, not the collective. We should accept each other's differences as long as those differences fall within the normal parameters of what's acceptable to society at large (for example, if someone's religion includes cannibalism, that is not acceptable to society).
That's pretty far off from the original point though, which is that the "multicultural" ideal is all about creating divisions between people rather than bringing them together.
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
In a society a single individual should not stand alone. |
And why "shouldn't" an individual stand alone? |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I agree completely. It is the INDIVIDUAL that matters in society, not the collective. We should accept each other's differences as long as those differences fall within the normal parameters of what's acceptable to society at large (for example, if someone's religion includes cannibalism, that is not acceptable to society).
That's pretty far off from the original point though, which is that the "multicultural" ideal is all about creating divisions between people rather than bringing them together.
And why "shouldn't" an individual stand alone? |
alright. so you've just given yourself the answer.
canada is a mosaic, an amalgation of differing cultures etc.
multi-culturalism is about being able to live life side by side, acknowledging, understanding (or at least trying to) accepting and respecting each other's differences.
(- the mere and simple act of acknowledgment is a sign of respect)
[Multi-culturalism]... values the diverse perspectives people develop and maintain through varieties of experiences and background stemming from racial, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation and/or class differences in our society. It strives to uphold ideals of equality, equity and freedom, and includes respect for individuals and groups as a principle fundamental to the success and growth of our country.
we take pride in being able to practice and cultivate our own cultures together in one country without having to fear for our lives. turn the whole thing around and look at it from this perspective: if that was the case, then i.e. why haven't the english canadians not started persecuting the quebecois and driving out the french canadian minority by armed force, even though there are differing views by a close 49/51 cut? |
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| Jayx1 |
im sick of group rights, Its out of control. If two or more grannies complain about legitimate noise, the offender has to cease immediately. Thats our new reality.
No one has tolerence for anyone anymore and thats a direct result of the politics of division that has been thrust upon us for the last 30 years. |
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| VERTiG0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by [NFC]Wave
BAHAHAHA
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Oh man that's awesome. |
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| starsearcher |
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^ That cartoon IS AWESOME BUT it also shows the reality of Canada...we have absolutely not problems and no worries, all we really care about is hockey while many other issues play out in other parts of the world... :toothless :p ;) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
we have absolutely not problems and no worries |
Hmm, I'm not sure how you meant that - I think we have no worries, but we do have problems, and that's precisely what has to be fixed!
Canadians in general are the least politically-aware people in the world. I mean, we're idealistic and believe in causes and such, but most of us have no clue what's actually going on with our own government (and if we do have a clue, we don't care and will go to insanely elaborate lengths to defend the status quo).
We joke about how Americans don't even know who our prime minister is, but I think the PM's name is about the extent of the average Canadian's political awareness. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by disko-kandi
alright. so you've just given yourself the answer.
canada is a mosaic, an amalgation of differing cultures etc.
multi-culturalism is about being able to live life side by side, acknowledging, understanding (or at least trying to) accepting and respecting each other's differences.
(- the mere and simple act of acknowledgment is a sign of respect) |
Yes, thank you, I'm aware of what's printed in our elementary school textbooks. "Integration not assimilation" and all that hodgepodge. Any reasonable person should automatically be wary of flowery language in government-stamped literature.
The word "mosaic" tends to imply a piece of art, a symmetrical fractal pattern or something like that. Something with a lot of different elements that all come together to form a beautiful design. The word plays on people's emotions, it's supposed to give us a feel-good euphoria about our country and a sense of superiority.
But the Canadian "mosaic" is more like graffiti and paint splatters on a brick wall. Our ACTUAL political model, contrary to the gross generalizations we read about in the textbooks, is divisive and isolationist. Separating groups based on their differences does NOT create unity or symbiosis. "Diversity" has to happen naturally - it can't be enforced without unfair policies. And when it is enforced this way, it's almost invariably based on superficial qualities like skin colour. Well let me ask you, where is the diversity of opinion in Canada? Where is the intellectual diversity? Americans were split almost 50/50 between Bush and Kerry, whereas Canadians polled some ridiculous number like 85% against Bush.
The mosaic is better than the melting pot in concept only. When put into practice, the mosaic is a societal disaster. The melting pot, on the other hand, works great because it reinforces a common culture but allows every individual to bring their own elements to it, INCLUDING those individuals' CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS.
You can't build a working invention out of random components without any practical design for how they're supposed to interact. This is why I always laugh when I hear the words "Canadian Culture" - because we have no culture, only isolated groups that barely speak the same language. |
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Hmm, I'm not sure how you meant that - I think we have no worries, but we do have problems, and that's precisely what has to be fixed!
Canadians in general are the least politically-aware people in the world. I mean, we're idealistic and believe in causes and such, but most of us have no clue what's actually going on with our own government (and if we do have a clue, we don't care and will go to insanely elaborate lengths to defend the status quo).
We joke about how Americans don't even know who our prime minister is, but I think the PM's name is about the extent of the average Canadian's political awareness. |
I meant things like wars, deaths, people attacking us....I mean REAL SERIOUS problems...not the BS we have in Canada (althouth admit a lot of these issues do deserve more attention)...I just find that many people prefer to have it easy and chill |
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| disko-kandi |
already then....i don't about you guys, but i think this discussion has come to an end.
thanks for dropping in. :D |
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