|
Wwii (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Subey |
Because everything happens twice on earth.
"Under cover of darkness the Japanese assaulted Russia's Pacific squadron lying at anchor off Port Arthur. The Russian ships were in a state of "peacetime readiness" and were not prepared for the unprovoked attack. Before the Russian gunners could open retaliatory fire, the best battleships of the squadron, Tsessarevitch and Retvisan, and also the first-rated cruiser Pallada, were hit by torpedoes." |
|
|
| smokeape |
| quote: | Originally posted by bassaholix
Why did Japan go to war?
I know about Germany and their Nazi plight...
But not on Japan |
Japan just decided they needed a major ass whipping and the US came through in spades. They never counted on getting nuked, but that came along with the package deal...
:p
[[[smoke]]] |
|
|
| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by smokeape
Japan just decided they needed a major ass whipping and the US came through in spades. They never counted on getting nuked, but that came along with the package deal...
:p
[[[smoke]]] |
the states knew well in advance that pearl harbour was to be attacked. i suspect they were really waiting to see what side won before they wasted any resources. henry ford would have loved a different victory, i'm sure.:thepirate |
|
|
| superglo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nou
Japan attacking the US when it did was a historic blunder, if they would have bid their time the US would have not entered the war until to late.
See what should have happened is that Hitler should have finished off England and taken it into its empire.
THEN it could turn its sights to the east and attack Russia.
Japan, having conquered China and most of South East Asia should have held off while the Nazi's moved eastward and Stalin drew his Far East forces back west to fight the Germans. Then Japan should have swept north and fought along the trans-Siberian railroad following the Far Eastern forces and getting Russia into a two front war.
Russia would have easily been defeated and now Japan and Germany would control most of Asia and Europe. Either side could have gone south and helped conquer those countries that had yet to ally with the axis powers.
The US would have been screwed at this point. They would have no way to land on either side of Asia or Europe.
At this point Japan could attack the US forces in the Pacific and have the full help of Germany with them.
Ahhh but hindsight is 20/20, too bad huh? |
hmm ..thats food for thought. . |
|
|
| Subey |
| quote: | Originally posted by superglo
hmm ..thats food for thought. . |
 |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nou
Japan attacking the US when it did was a historic blunder, if they would have bid their time the US would have not entered the war until to late.
See what should have happened is that Hitler should have finished off England and taken it into its empire.
THEN it could turn its sights to the east and attack Russia.
Japan, having conquered China and most of South East Asia should have held off while the Nazi's moved eastward and Stalin drew his Far East forces back west to fight the Germans. Then Japan should have swept north and fought along the trans-Siberian railroad following the Far Eastern forces and getting Russia into a two front war.
Russia would have easily been defeated and now Japan and Germany would control most of Asia and Europe. Either side could have gone south and helped conquer those countries that had yet to ally with the axis powers.
The US would have been screwed at this point. They would have no way to land on either side of Asia or Europe.
At this point Japan could attack the US forces in the Pacific and have the full help of Germany with them.
Ahhh but hindsight is 20/20, too bad huh? |
There are a few small flaws with this senario....
a) the US was producing ships at close to 70% capacity prior to the Pearl Harbor.... they were preping for war. At 70% capacity they outpaced Japan's production of war materials by more then double. Japan knew that it would not have the ability to enter into a war of attrition with the US. The decision to attack Pearl Harbor was a good one as nearly the entire Pacific fleet was docked there at one time. Had the attack been executed more efficiently and had included the carriers Japan could have easily taken Hawaii. Without Hawaii the US would have to supply any forces mounted against Japan from the west coast (San Diego specifically)..... a supply line streatching the entire Pacific ocean would have been impossible to maintain. Taking Hawaii would have effectively made it impossible for the US to enter the war in the Pacific. It was a calculated risk and the odds were with Japan (especially considering that conventional naval strategy at the time depended on battleships not carriers and all the Pacific Fleet's battle ships were in harbor at the time).
b) focusing on Russia with Germany would have been a very good idea as it would have created a two front war for Russia. Unfortunately, Japan did not have the resources availible to them to undertake such a task. They needed more fuel oil. This is why they were going for Indonesia. Attacking Russia would have been impossible without the resources in Indonesia.... control of Indonesia would have been difficult if not impossible to maintain if the US were to become involved, thus, the US would need to be taken out prior to taking Indoniesia.
c) The idea of Germany and Japan sharing Russia is ideologically impossible. Russia was the prize for Hitler. Russia was the "living space" that Germany was after. The west of Russia would be used as an agricultural zone, the capean sea would be exploited for it's oil, and the black sea for it's resources. Beyond that was to be the area in which the Germans conducted their "1000 year war." Well, this plan is impossible if you have Japan occupying the areas in which you plan to conduct your war and rape the resources.
Additionally, Japan was not about to share anything with anyone. They had no desire to work with Germany beyond their own interest. They were allied with Germany simply because they had the same enemies.
IF either of these powers had succeeded in their war plans they would have gone on to fight their "ally" in the end. Neither of them wanted to see the other control even part of Russia as it would give them additional resources and make the coming war against each other unbalanced. |
|
|
| trunks1022 |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
the states knew well in advance that pearl harbour was to be attacked. i suspect they were really waiting to see what side won before they wasted any resources. henry ford would have loved a different victory, i'm sure.:thepirate |
the carmaker? |
|
|
| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Because they wanted to spread their imperialism towards Asia, after they had beaten the Russian Empire and stuff, and they thought they wouldn't be defeated:
|
They never beat the Russians in fact the Russians and Japanese did fight each other in Mongolia. The Japs were defeated and after that encounter with the Russians they were afraid of fighting them. So it did not matter the war in Russia would never have been a two front war. |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
They never beat the Russians in fact the Russians and Japanese did fight each other in Mongolia. The Japs were defeated and after that encounter with the Russians they were afraid of fighting them. So it did not matter the war in Russia would never have been a two front war. |
They fought in Manchuria... Japan won and anexed it from Russia.... lean your history boy! |
|
|
| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
They fought in Manchuria... Japan won and anexed it from Russia.... lean your history boy! |
ummm that was PRE WORLD WAR1!!!! Jesus christ man Russia was attacked in Manchuria by the Japanese and the Japenese won. Than Russia exited the war because they got thier asses kicked. This created more unrest in Russia as the war caused thousands of life and the life in Russia was going downhill anyways. God learn your history BOY! |
|
|
| occrider |
They needed a mighty empire to prepare for:
 |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
ummm that was PRE WORLD WAR1!!!! Jesus christ man Russia was attacked in Manchuria by the Japanese and the Japenese won. Than Russia exited the war because they got thier asses kicked. This created more unrest in Russia as the war caused thousands of life and the life in Russia was going downhill anyways. God learn your history BOY! |
True, however following the Manchurian war there was a cold war that lasted until the start of WWII. This is why all the elite tank divisions were at the Manchurian border when the Germans attacked. The return of these tanks from the East is what allowed USSR the strength to win at Stalingrad.
While you may regard the Manchurian war as being long since over by the time WWII started both the Japanese and the USSR considered it to be an active war. Much the same way you Yanks believe that the Vietnam War started in the 1960s when it actually started nearly 100 years earlier. |
|
|
|
|
