|
Fitting the bass and the kick
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Thois |
1) do i need to look for a certain bass sound that fits the kick?
2) or do i need to fit the kick to the bass?
3) do they need to be in key with each other?
as you probably understand: i am having a hard time making these two components fit together, i need tips!!!!
my sucky kick+bass: http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...JO21TZH1NW4IEHB
EDIT: ooooooooops slightly overcompressed the sample |
|
|
| TVG |
| For that type of bass you could try side-chain compression. I don't think you need to worry about the keys. The main problem with that was that the kick had no thump at all. |
|
|
| Pillow One |
well it might work good if u put kick and bass on the same channel with a compressor device , make the kick sound punchy with the compressor and the bass will sound the same if ull put it on the same channel :) thats how it works for me atleast...
hope i helped |
|
|
| DigiNut |
If I hear the word "sidechain" one more time I'm going to puke!
Fitting the bass and kick applies the same principles as fitting anything else in the mix: eq and compression.
EQ:
- Make sure your kick and bass peak at different frequencies!
- Remember, you can lower existing frequencies, but you can't create frequencies that aren't there. It's best to start with a full, punchy kick and notch it to the sweet spot. Same with bass - start with a full sound and cut away whatever you need to.
- It doesn't matter if it's your kick has the uber-low sub-bass sound or if it's the bass, but they can't both have it. Since the kick never changes but the bass does, it's *usually* easier to do it on the kick, but if you're doing a breakbeat then it's often the other way around since the kicks need to be closer together.
- "Punchy kicks" are beefy in the "upper" bass, i.e. above 200-250 Hz. Usually what I'll try to do is accentuate the kick in the very low (60-100 Hz) and punchy (250-500 Hz) areas, and fit the bass in between, but that is just me, and every producer and every individual track is going to be different.
Compression:
- Low attack (as close to 0 ms as you can get) and low release (20-100 ms) on the kick. The values can be a little higher on the bass.
- Compress the kick and bass individually, THEN if possible compress them together (it's not always possible depending on your routings)
- Compress the out of your kick until just before you hear distortion. Compress the of your bass or bass/kick group ONLY if the bass has limited pitch range, otherwise you have to be careful.
- Parametric or multiband compressors on the low end (below 200-300 Hz) can also help.
These aren't rules, only tips. I can't guarantee that these will work for you or for your track. The principles are sound but the application depends on the source material, and invidual results may vary. I do not claim these to be rock-solid techniques for earth-shattering tracks - they're merely a starting point that I personally use.
And it goes without saying that EVERYTHING needs to be in tune. If you can hear audible dissonance between the kick and bass, you have a big problem. |
|
|
| djlogik |
| I think the kick needs more of a "thump" to it. It's kinda boring. The bass is fine but like diginut says it's all about the eq and compression. If you don't have a good kick/bass to work with in the first place though, not even eq and compression can help it. |
|
|
| mysticalninja |
| this kind of bass + kick combo needs side chain compression :o thatll give it teh thump. |
|
|
| Limit |
| sidechian sidechain sidechian, thats all I hear. Do you really know what sidechaining is gonna do to your bass...well its gonna let your bass come through full force when you kick is not in play...hmmm thats not for very long is it? nope. Sure the sidechain thing works and thats fine but in my opinion its only good for that simple kick bass crap..and I think we are all past that now(fine hard trance is a different story). |
|
|
| DigiNut |
Yeah, to put it in words everybody can understand:
"Sidechaining is sooooo last week!" |
|
|
| mysticalninja |
| quote: | | in my opinion its only good for that simple kick bass crap |
i thought side chaining is best used in continuous bass that plays with the kick, not the simpe kick bass kick bass 'crap'. it doesnt need a whole lot, just enough to make the bass thump.
| quote: | | Compress the out of your kick until just before you hear distortion. |
that seems to give me more high pitch punch too the kick. escpecially with high threshold. i use timeworks compressorX |
|
|
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
i thought side chaining is best used in continuous bass that plays with the kick, not the simpe kick bass kick bass 'crap'. it doesnt need a whole lot, just enough to make the bass thump. |
Yes, but the resulting sound is the typical syncopated oompa-oompa bassline. It's worthless with a breakbeat or a really interesting bassline.
Besides, the effect you get from sidechaining is more commonly known as "pumping", and it's generally accepted as a sound you DON'T want to hear coming out of a compressor. It's great that some producers are pushing the envelope and experimenting, but enough already - we heard the sidechained bass, we understand it, and now we're sick of it. It's played out. It was a curiosity, a passing fad, nothing more.
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
that seems to give me more high pitch punch too the kick. escpecially with high threshold. i use timeworks compressorX |
Compression won't change the pitch of a kick at all. It only loudens the release of a kick (i.e. the frequencies that are already there). |
|
|
| mysticalninja |
| i ment to say frequency. it gives more high frequency punch to the kick it seems. |
|
|
| Dj Thy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Yes, but the resulting sound is the typical syncopated oompa-oompa bassline. It's worthless with a breakbeat or a really interesting bassline.
Besides, the effect you get from sidechaining is more commonly known as "pumping", and it's generally accepted as a sound you DON'T want to hear coming out of a compressor. It's great that some producers are pushing the envelope and experimenting, but enough already - we heard the sidechained bass, we understand it, and now we're sick of it. It's played out. It was a curiosity, a passing fad, nothing more.
|
Sorry, but I beg to differ.
First, pumping is not the result of bassducking in itself (and stop using the word sidechaining only for that purpose, it's a lot broader than that), it's simply the result of setting bad attack and release times (mostly the latter). Sidechaining should be used subtly, like most other processes, unless you want to push the envelope.
And secondly, passing fad, curiosity? I agree if you mean using it to make everything pump so much you get sick just listening to it. But real sidechaining (all the uses for it) isn't really a curiosity, nor a passing fad. It has probably been used longer than most of you are producing (or even before you were born, did you think it really originated with Daft Punk and the likes?), and it'll be used a lot in the future too. Not everyone uses it in an exagerated way. It's just up to the person mixing (both in terms of skills and taste) to know if it will do more harm than good or on the contrary help to give that little bit extra. Sidechaining can be really helpful, but it's not the end all be all lifesaver you all make it to be either. It's just another weapon in the mixers arsenal.
Personally, my advice is : learn to master "simple" compression first, before even thinking about using the sidechain.
Oh and mysticalninja, frequency basically means the same as pitch (the first is more expressed as a physical value, while the other is more a musical (perceptive) translation of it, ie. concert pitch => A above middle C equals 440 Hz. A higher frequency therefor means a higher pitch also). You probably mean it brings out the click of the drum more, which is usually situated around 4000-8000 Hz. |
|
|
|
|
