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My experience with Shure Whitelabels
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| darkSIde |
Well I've had the Whitelabels for about a week now so I think I have enough experience to say something about them. First let me say that I was really impressed by the sound quality, nice lows with warm, round mids and pretty hot highs. So hot that some of my hotter records get the "ss" effect going on the vocals. :eek: For a normal record tho, this level of highs is very nice.
I use MK5's. Now the major problem I had at least in the beginning was their tendency to skip around during cueing. They would jump forward a few bars, both of them! I've heard of other people here having problems with ONE needle doing this and the other being fine, but mine was with both. I tried many things, height adjustment, weight adjustment, even had to turn on anti-skate for a couple settings to calm down the needle :wtf:
Well I want to keep the weight at 2.0 grams to minimize wear, so I started experimenting with height settings, found a somewhat stable setting around 2.5mm, but with this I had to turn on anti-skate to about 1.8, which I really dont want to do. So I checked the overhang of the carts and this is what got me.
At null setting, the stylus overhangs by about 1mm (I used the gauges that come with the Techs) which I find very odd. So to get it exact I had to back it up to the first mark past null, I'm assuming each mark is in +/-1mm increments. After that, the needles were acting ALOT better, I was able to set height to zero, keep the weight at 2.0, and turn anti-skate off :D
With certain records tho, it will still sometimes skip even with this supposedly 'optimized' setting. I attribute the skipping to records that have a slightly wider center hole, so now when I'm cueing I try to put force towards the outside of the record so it doesnt bounce around on the platter. This consequently is mainly with thinner vinyls, certain releases by vandit and euphonic :mad:
If anyone knows of any other settings to help this problem, help would be appreciated. Overall I'm very satisfied with these needles. |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by darkSIde
Well I've had the Whitelabels for about a week now so I think I have enough experience to say something about them. First let me say that I was really impressed by the sound quality, nice lows with warm, round mids and pretty hot highs. So hot that some of my hotter records get the "ss" effect going on the vocals. :eek: For a normal record tho, this level of highs is very nice.
I use MK5's. Now the major problem I had at least in the beginning was their tendency to skip around during cueing. They would jump forward a few bars, both of them! I've heard of other people here having problems with ONE needle doing this and the other being fine, but mine was with both. I tried many things, height adjustment, weight adjustment, even had to turn on anti-skate for a couple settings to calm down the needle :wtf:
Well I want to keep the weight at 2.0 grams to minimize wear, so I started experimenting with height settings, found a somewhat stable setting around 2.5mm, but with this I had to turn on anti-skate to about 1.8, which I really dont want to do. So I checked the overhang of the carts and this is what got me.
At null setting, the stylus overhangs by about 1mm (I used the gauges that come with the Techs) which I find very odd. So to get it exact I had to back it up to the first mark past null, I'm assuming each mark is in +/-1mm increments. After that, the needles were acting ALOT better, I was able to set height to zero, keep the weight at 2.0, and turn anti-skate off :D
With certain records tho, it will still sometimes skip even with this supposedly 'optimized' setting. I attribute the skipping to records that have a slightly wider center hole, so now when I'm cueing I try to put force towards the outside of the record so it doesnt bounce around on the platter. This consequently is mainly with thinner vinyls, certain releases by vandit and euphonic :mad:
If anyone knows of any other settings to help this problem, help would be appreciated. Overall I'm very satisfied with these needles. |
i love my whitelables. they sound very clean, natural, and detailed. nothings sounds artificially boosted, or harsh.
right now, i have the tone arm hight set to how ever it came out of the box. (i think it's a tad less than 3) the weight is set @ 2grams, and anti-skate set to zero. the only records i have problems cuing are the same records i ALWAYS had cuing problems w/regardless of what needle i used. -never really took the time to really analyse what the exact problem was... -just assumed that's just how the pressing is.
i did notice that one cart over hang setting was off. so i adjusted it. but i never noticed any problem w/performance. i tried to adjust it, but i can't seem to get it just right. everytime i try to tighten the screw, it cart moves a little. but atleast it's better than it was before.
one thing i noticed, is that sometimes i hear some pops. then when i add a little more weight, say .5-1gram, the popping stops, or is barely audible.
in a nutshell, what i'm trying to say is that there is really no magic set up, just "optimal". meaning it will work well w/most records, not all. you just have to know your records, and know what to do when when you come across an oddball, like a bad pressing, or one w/an wierd hole... hehehe... scratchers usually put a piece of tape over the center hole, then cut an X into the part of tape that over the hole. that way the tape will fill up the extra space, and make the record fit better on the spindle.
another thing i noticed is that @2grams, you really need to keep your records spic n' span. any visible dust, needs to cleaned off before playing. even the most microscopic dust bunny will create a very noticable change in sound. now i know why they included a stylus brush. my old stanton 500al where a lot better in this department.
here are some pics i took. -my camera needs some service... so forgive the crappiness:
if you notice, one cart is still just little off (the 3rd & 4th pics)
but still looks pretty good on the measuring tool. -that's the one that i adjusted. cart in the first two pics where right on the money right out of the box. |
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| darkSIde |
hmm I never would have thought that they would skip regardless of the needle used. My previous decks where, dont laugh, Numarks with really horrible carts but those never skipped around on the aforementioned records suprisingly. That tape trick sounds like a good idea, for some reason the numarks had bigger spindles than the techs so Im thinking that would be why they never skipped around like that.
My overhang probably isnt exact either, I had to spent a good lot of time getting them right, and theres still probably a microscopic error.
The next thing I was thinking about doing is trying the carts on the technics headshells to see if there is a difference. Im not even sure if this is possible yet but we'll see. |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by darkSIde
hmm I never would have thought that they would skip regardless of the needle used. My previous decks where, dont laugh, Numarks with really horrible carts but those never skipped around on the aforementioned records suprisingly. That tape trick sounds like a good idea, for some reason the numarks had bigger spindles than the techs so Im thinking that would be why they never skipped around like that.
My overhang probably isnt exact either, I had to spent a good lot of time getting them right, and theres still probably a microscopic error.
The next thing I was thinking about doing is trying the carts on the technics headshells to see if there is a difference. Im not even sure if this is possible yet but we'll see. |
i wouldn't worry about a microscopic error... so far the carts have been working like a dream (even before adjusted one of them)
are you talking about putting the whitelabel onto a technics headshell? breaking it down(the whitelabel) and wireing it to the technics headshell??? good luck ;p
do still have the old numarks? tried the whitelabels on them?
have you tried to re-create the same tone arm settings, and weight on the technics?
tried the old carts on the techs?
if the they don't skip w/the whitelabels on numarks... then we know the carts care good, and the spindle is to blame -most likely.
if they skip w/the old carts on the techs, while being set up the same way the numarks were... then it's the center hole. -maybe but unlikely, you techs may be messed up...
has adding more weight to the cart helped at all? maybe 2.5-3.5 grams instead of just 2grams? |
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| dj darroch |
At first when I set these carts up I was having problems with it skipping when playing vinyls. The setting was - height 3.5 & weight 3.0. So I had to add more weight to them & now I have got them at weight 3.5 & the height the same. Theres no problems with the current settings.
Obviously because there new this happens because the stylus is not shaped into the groove & thats why its skipping.
Also the problem where you are saying that it skips when queing a record - the vinyl may be warped? |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj darroch
Also the problem where you are saying that it skips when queing a record - the vinyl may be warped? |
not warped. i mean the way the record was pressed/manufactured.
one record in particular comes to mind:
http://www.discogs.com/release/39256
i have tried cueing this record w/500al, 680hp, trackmasters, and now the whitelabel. it skips w/every single cart. it has skipped on a gemini, a stanton, and techs. it skips the least w/the whitelabel. sometimes i have to back cue w/the platter completley stopped and bring the record back slowly. and the needle still pops out of the groove 1/4 of the time. i can cue any othe part of the song, execpt beat one. -i have to drop the record by hiting the start button, then correct. i don't know if it's the kick on beat one, or the pressing. i have a couple records that do the same thing, but not as bad as this one in particular. but now that i have the tech, i should try to play w/the settings to see if i get some results. but w/the settings i have now, cueing this record is a headache. |
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| dj darroch |
| quote: | Originally posted by sr126
not warped. i mean the way the record was pressed/manufactured.
one record in particular comes to mind:
http://www.discogs.com/release/39256
i have tried cueing this record w/500al, 680hp, trackmasters, and now the whitelabel. it skips w/every single cart. it has skipped on a gemini, a stanton, and techs. it skips the least w/the whitelabel. sometimes i have to back cue w/the platter completley stopped and bring the record back slowly. and the needle still pops out of the groove 1/4 of the time. i can cue any othe part of the song, execpt beat one. -i have to drop the record by hiting the start button, then correct. i don't know if it's the kick on beat one, or the pressing. i have a couple records that do the same thing, but not as bad as this one in particular. but now that i have the tech, i should try to play w/the settings to see if i get some results. but w/the settings i have now, cueing this record is a headache. |
Is the hole in the middle loose? does the vinyl move about when queing? |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj darroch
Is the hole in the middle loose? does the vinyl move about when queing? |
let me go upstairs and dig the record out...
i'll get back to you on that. seriously... |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sr126
let me go upstairs and dig the record out...
i'll get back to you on that. seriously... |
*sniffle, sniffle*
the hole IS loose.
i've owed the record for about 10yrs, and today i found out what the problem is.
well... i was able to cue the record nice and clean w/6grams of weight on the stylus... but that didn't look, or feel sexy at all.
i asked the record for a million pardons after doing that. it's still wondering if it will forgive me or not. :( |
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| dj darroch |
| quote: | Originally posted by sr126
*sniffle, sniffle*
the hole IS loose.
i've owed the record for about 10yrs, and today i found out what the problem is.
well... i was able to cue the record nice and clean w/6grams of weight on the stylus... but that didn't look, or feel sexy at all.
i asked the record for a million pardons after doing that. it's still wondering if it will forgive me or not. :( |
Ouch :nervous:
Putting 6 grams of weight on a stylus will just plainly ruin your stylus. Wear it down 50X quicker!
I've got a couple of records thats holes are loose & do skip when queing! Jus need to be more gentle with it:) |
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| darkSIde |
Wow 6g of weight. Yeah it seems that the center hole is the main reason all of us are having problems with skipping, i'm about to try swapping the carts b/w my old Numarks and see if the spindle is really the problem, if so, I'm going to call Technics and see if I can get a free replacement under the warranty (they are only 2 weeks old).
Thing is tho certain whitelabels (records) have a tiny center hole, like a high school virgin you have to work the record on there whereas others are like a well used whore and bounce around on there so I'm :conf: |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by darkSIde
Wow 6g of weight. Yeah it seems that the center hole is the main reason all of us are having problems with skipping, i'm about to try swapping the carts b/w my old Numarks and see if the spindle is really the problem, if so, I'm going to call Technics and see if I can get a free replacement under the warranty (they are only 2 weeks old).
Thing is tho certain whitelabels (records) have a tiny center hole, like a high school virgin you have to work the record on there whereas others are like a well used whore and bounce around on there so I'm :conf: |
hey there guys.
not sure if this has been mentioned but try sticking a square of masking tape on each side of the vinyl so it covers the centre hole. then with a skewer of sharp implement make a small hole where the center hole is. now push the record onto the platter spindle until it pushes through. the record wont skip anymore cos the hole will be tighter.... like a virgin again...:crazy: |
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