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Knowing what your tune will eventually sound like
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| Thois |
OK, i am having big difficulties selecting styles and sounds:
If you guys start a track, do you know what it will be like in the end, or do you just keep adding stuff by listening what you have got until then and then decide what to do further?
I mean, some pro's finish a pro track in two days? Then they MUST have every single detail of the track to make in their head otherwise it seems impossible to me.
Do i need to write down what my track needs to be like, what elements it will have etc and do i need to picture it in my head already, or is edm production all about tweaking till it sounds good (without having a single idea of the end result) (+ improvising)???
How do you guys do it? How do the pro's do it?
P.S. I know edm production isnt exact science, everyone has his own working style, just curious how you guys do it |
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| Zombie0915 |
I have trouble with this too, everything I make sounds a little off and I wonder if at a later stage I can clean it up or if I am starting it the complete wrong way. I make a bunch of drum loops attempting to make them sound like the drums in an epic trancer but I dont know what fx to send them through to sound right. They end up really rough and raw sounding.
Sometimes I wish I could hear a pro's track to see if it sounds similar at that early stage before everything is all fine tuned just so I could see if I was even going in the right direction with my attempts at making the drum loops. I am trying to train myself to come up with decent compositions before I go too far into applying effects and mastering and stuff. I compare my work to a finished product and I am unsure if the core of the composition is right and it is sounding off because of my lack of fine tuning, or if my entire composition is off.
I think what I need to do is to bang out a few minutes of music and let some kids listen to it to get some help identifying whether the fx and stuff is off or whether my entire composition is just not matching the way a trance track is composed. Either that or find a track that I can listen to at various stages in the production cycle to see if the begining of my production efforts are starting off correctly. |
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| Reactance |
| quote: | | I go too far into applying effects and mastering and stuff |
Sounds Like me,
But really i still dont understand why or how the pro`s do it its not the software, its not the hardware or the PC,
Damit I even got a DVD with very good trance samples still my track construction to is still not lock tight!
HOW THE PRO`S DO IT :conf::
P.S
Sometimes i just wanna give up :whip: |
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| whiterex |
| quote: | Originally posted by Reactance
Sounds Like me,
But really i still dont understand why or how the pro`s do it its not the software, its not the hardware or the PC,
Damit I even got a DVD with very good trance samples still my track construction to is still not lock tight!
HOW THE PRO`S DO IT :conf::
P.S
Sometimes i just wanna give up :whip: |
I think they must just get to the stage where everything starts to fall into place where they have tried that many things in there seaerching that they can fall back on there past trial and errors and go "ahh if i do what i did back then and it did this it will really suit what im doing now" or something like that i dunno. But I feel your frustration guys.
By the way I just read an interview with gabriel & dresden and they only use a mac with logic nothing else. the whole of as the rush comes was written with logic the es1 synth was the only synth used (qute a basic synth) and heaps of effects and automation. How they make that synth sound like that just boggles my mind!!! but then thats why the are the PRO's |
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| Axolotyl |
god I wish I knew what it would sound like... its like a faint whisper in my head and then somehow I bastardise a pale shadow of it onto the sonic canvas.
I try and get a mental image of something unique that I want to capture. Sound fx, a break or something and try and keep it in my head. When something like it evolves from the speakers, then I try and keep it as the focus for the track.
Thats about all I can hope for... the rest is dumb luck and peristence:conf: |
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| Zombie0915 |
The way I imagine it happening is sort of an iterative development. One makes something and listens to it all the way through, then looks for places to improve. Then a new draft is made and the cycle starts all over again. We only get to hear the tracks after they are all the way at the end of those cycles and when we are just starting the beginning phases of our productions we have a hard time figuring out if we are doing those first parts right. I also think that it helps to have accumulated a collection of yer own patches and stuff after producing for a fair amout of time, that way instead of starting from nothing pros tend to have previous work which they can recall as they need it. Maybe we would be a little better off if we started making some source fragments like those that I imagine any experienced producer has accumulated over time.
If only we could sneak a camera in somebodys studio and see how their tracks sound before they are finished, to see if we are off to the proper start. I always wonder what a pro's raw loops would sound like before all the mixing and compressing and various tweaking, just to see if they are very far from my own at that early stage in the process. Or maybe they just start off sounding the way they do and it isnt iterative at all, maybe they pull up their compressors and eqs and stuff before they lay out their segments, or maybe its a little bit of both.
I need a friggin clue! |
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| GreenLight |
lemme ask you this, How is your basic 4/4 With hats and the works ? Is it tight ? I can sit down right now and cook up the nicest, Quality sounding Drum Loop with everything ... hats, clap whatever, In less than 3 minutes ... no jokes its really about time and skill, if your damn good at producing your basic beat ... move on to the next step ... I usually don't find out how any of my tracks are going to feel until I place BASS into the mix, my bass line really determines what the feel of the track will be, more or less also the sound of a dark or light pad or string progression ... Speaking of dark or light, when your making your drum loop, it highly depends on what sounds your using to make the loop ... FX and other tiny details get worked in right after you grab that tight, kicking drum loop ...
another thing that helps me out ... a picture ... a picture of what I want my tune to sound like ... sounds wierd I know ... but try it ... have a picture of a beautiful sunset near you while your producing, I can almost promise looking at it while listening to your tune will progress you into shaping yourself at that moment around what you see ... shaping your tune to what you see ... you see beautiful, you make beautiful ... you see dark, you make dark ... try it ... works for me ...
also ... try making something sound like the A and R at your Fav. producers record label would accept ...
I can always tell what my record will sound like during the first 16 bars of the start of the track, because of the sound I give off due to the drums, the bass , the effects and the strings or pad, go with your gut guys ... if you want it beautiful ... make it beautiful ... if you want it hauntingly monsterous ... do it ... if you'd like more detail on what the heck im talkin about , let me know ... I'll try to break it down and go deep for you ... |
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| PutBoy |
Acctually it's more of an idea for me. For example I may think "wouldn't it be cool, with a gliding melody?" and I create that gliding melody. Then I go into every other details of the track. The drums, the bass, the leads. And finally I get a tune with a completetly different melody than I started out with ;D
So, I never no what my tracks will sound like. An exception is Quintet of a Meadow. This tune just popped into my head, I was watching Amadeus at the time (acctually I took a break of the movie and had a few sandwiches). And I just started humming a melody. I didn't even realise it. Then I thought "hey, I'm humming a freakin' melody".
And I just rushed to my computer and started sequencing it. And as soon as I had finished the melody, it only had strings so far, I started creating the whole tune in my mind. The initial Kick-snare beat with an incoming rhodes-piano behind it. Then the sub-Bassline. The wood-peck. It all just popped in. It was seriously crazy :S
Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, most of the time I have no idea. Sometimes though, it all just clicks. |
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| Limit |
| for me its all about the way i feel...I take that and translate it into music....I usually know what my track will sound like once I have my melody down. after that its all in my head and comes together very nicely. |
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| Aquarian |
| I usually start from one instrument and try to establish a mood with it. Then I work into getting all the other instruments and effects to fit into that mood. |
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| Zombie0915 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GreenLight
lemme ask you this, How is your basic 4/4 With hats and the works ? Is it tight ? I can sit down right now and cook up the nicest, Quality sounding Drum Loop with everything ... hats, clap whatever, In less than 3 minutes ... no jokes its really about time and skill, if your damn good at producing your basic beat ... move on to the next step ... I usually don't find out how any of my tracks are going to feel until I place BASS into the mix, my bass line really determines what the feel of the track will be, more or less also the sound of a dark or light pad or string progression ... Speaking of dark or light, when your making your drum loop, it highly depends on what sounds your using to make the loop ... FX and other tiny details get worked in right after you grab that tight, kicking drum loop ...
another thing that helps me out ... a picture ... a picture of what I want my tune to sound like ... sounds wierd I know ... but try it ... have a picture of a beautiful sunset near you while your producing, I can almost promise looking at it while listening to your tune will progress you into shaping yourself at that moment around what you see ... shaping your tune to what you see ... you see beautiful, you make beautiful ... you see dark, you make dark ... try it ... works for me ...
also ... try making something sound like the A and R at your Fav. producers record label would accept ...
I can always tell what my record will sound like during the first 16 bars of the start of the track, because of the sound I give off due to the drums, the bass , the effects and the strings or pad, go with your gut guys ... if you want it beautiful ... make it beautiful ... if you want it hauntingly monsterous ... do it ... if you'd like more detail on what the heck im talkin about , let me know ... I'll try to break it down and go deep for you ... |
so what do you consider a tight kicking drum loop?
Does that mean you have your drum sampler and you layed out a few patterns for it? How do you know if it is quality sounding when you just have your raw drumkit samples playing? Do you do your panning and eq stuff and count that into your 3 minutes to make quality loops, or does that part come later? I can lay out midi patterns to trigger my drum plugin(hydrogen) and I have plenty of fun sounds to choose from but none of them really sound like a beat that I would hear in a trance track, and I wonder if it is the fault of the basic composition or just due to me not doing the fine tweaks and fx and stuff yet.
I think your picture idea isnt strange at all, I find that environmental noises help me to be inspired. I get alot of ideas right before I fall asleep at night when I hear crickets outsite and stuff. I take frequent breaks when I am trying to roll a loop to go outside and listen to background noise, for sum reason being in front of the computer kills alot of my musical inspiration but I am working on that. |
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| GreenLight |
I don't use raw dumkit samples ... I use samples Ive made myself ... already EQ'd, so I already know what each one sounds like ... Ive got a bunch diff. of hi hats ... a bunch of diff. kicks and so on ... takes time to make a kick or a hi hat the way you want it to sound ... I'll do alot of FINAL eqing during the final mixdown of the entire track ... and yes, I'll pan and everything( pan, adjust semitones, sample if I need to, et cetera) during my 3-5 minute drum looping basic setup ...
and ... If you'll give me a place to host a small mp3 sample ... I'll show you what a nice, quality drum loop is ... QUESTION: what kind of sequencer do you use ? |
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