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Paying to get a track Mastered. (pg. 2)
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I haven't been producing seriously for that long, but I still find it strange how mastering is treated like some kind of voodoo mysticism on these boards.
Mastering only occurs on ONE stereo audio track (or sometimes 5 mono tracks for surround). It does not concern itself with individual instruments or parts.
Mastering by definition is just that - bringing up the master level of a track. It won't increase the clarity or sharpen or soften a track. It just makes it louder. That is why people say, the best mastering cannot help a poorly-mixed track, but a kick-ass mix can be utterly wrecked by a lousy master (i.e. overcompressing).
Usually, mastering is one or more of the following:
- EQ/frequency exciters
- Compression/multiband compression
- Stereo imaging
- Brickwall levelling
- Dithering to a lower bitrate
IMHO, you don't need to pay someone to do this - anyone can get themselves some pretty decent mastering tools (maybe not "the best" but "good enough") and learn to use them. The changes made to a track during mastering are always going to be very subtle, so if your track doesn't already sound good, then don't even bother trying to master it - fix the mix until it sounds good, THEN master it. |
I certainly agree 100% with everything you say here, with the exception that mastering can't do some very special things to your average track. Then again, I do prefer to go down the path you have and say that mastering simply cannot fix a bad mix, because this is absolutely true and puts the message across much more firmly. But it's amazing what a bit of EQ'ing can do to the master to really open the sound up and make every instrument almost magically come across better. Of course it does depend on the quality of the mixdown, but even a good mastering can bring an average mix to life (within reason of course, not to mention that "good" and "average" are very subjective terms - and my standards are pretty high).
Anyhow, not disagreeing with you, just saying that there may be hope out there. ;)
Mastering isn't something you should rely on, but not something you should forget about altogether. |
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| dinoXpress |
| quote: | Originally posted by Passiva
Is that the mastered and mixed version you posted? Because it's completely mono. |
Yeah this one is mono. it was stereo but there was a up im going to see the studio about. only the Left channel came out properly on my cd. so i just duplicated it ftm.
http://www.dropkru.com/dino/Roger_M...Remix).mp3.orig
there is the original.
write wirte a proper reply in a minute. but suppose i was to go back to the studio and kinda be like wtf! what kinda things should i ask for and make sure get done?
we did overall stuff at the end of the mixdown..i guess not enough? |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by dinoXpress
we did overall stuff at the end of the mixdown..i guess not enough? |
Mix compression is one side to mastering (I didn't find it right, nor enough of it though), but there's also the crucial limiting step, something that wasn't applied in your case, or at least not enough imo. But, first the mixdown needs to be EQ'd from a mastering perspective (considering the sound as a whole) rather than thinking about the instruments themselves, why it's so important to leave this to another set of ears so your judgment isn't clouded by subjectivity. |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
Why that costs money is beyond me. |
To cover the cost of the equipment and years of work and experience the engineer has gone through? ;) |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| Anyhow, sorry for jumping all in here. If you're happy with it, then that's all that matters, right? :) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Atlantis-AR
...But it's amazing what a bit of EQ'ing can do to the master to really open the sound up and make every instrument almost magically come across better. Of course it does depend on the quality of the mixdown, but even a good mastering can bring an average mix to life (within reason of course, not to mention that "good" and "average" are very subjective terms - and my standards are pretty high). |
Oh, absolutely. Actually, I've got a saved EQ curve that's worked great for my last 3 or 4 tracks with only minimal tweaking - that "sweet spot" for my particular production style, and it makes a huge difference in the sound.
Personally, I think what you're talking about is more along the lines of making a mix "hotter", which a master can do, but not "clearer". It's a subtle difference, but an important one: if a mix is dull, then EQ can give it more life, but if a mix is muddy, then no EQ on the master can clean it up (the tracks need to be EQed individually).
| quote: | | Mastering isn't something you should rely on, but not something you should forget about altogether. |
Again, that's absolutely correct. I listen to lots of tracks from the production forum, and one thing that annoys the hell out of me is that some tracks are *ridiculously* loud and causing *insane* levels of clipping. At the very least, use a cheap mastering leveller to limit it to 0 dB!
Really, I'm just trying to remove some of the mysticism from this topic. I believe many amateurs compare their tracks to professional tracks and think that the only difference is a $5000 compressor or the perfect master EQ settings, when the real problems are in their mix. It's a self-defeating attitude, because there are many producers out there who are able to get exceptional quality out of relatively cheap equipment. |
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| dinoXpress |
Ok, i see what you guys are saying..
Im going back to the studo on saturday:
What things should i ask this guy for specifically?
btw: digi, listened to your tunes, enjoyed em buy some parts sounded a lil "cheap" some sounds just sounded liek they took over the whole mix.. specially in Aigis - Off the Wreckord (funky breaks) good idea just didnt seem very "crystal clear" enoyable, may spin them in an upcoming set. |
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| Axolotyl |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Really, I'm just trying to remove some of the mysticism from this topic. I believe many amateurs compare their tracks to professional tracks and think that the only difference is a $5000 compressor or the perfect master EQ settings, when the real problems are in their mix. It's a self-defeating attitude, because there are many producers out there who are able to get exceptional quality out of relatively cheap equipment. |
I think your paying for the experience and ears of a professional mastering engineer and their monitoring setup which you would hope they know pretty well. No one is really under the impression that people are using hardware compressors or any of that these days.
Plus the benefit of getting someone else to master your own track can't be understated. |
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| DigiNut |
Indeed, the overall mix on that particular tune didn't come out very well, I've mentioned that explicitly in other threads and on the download page. Keep in mind the point of the track though, which is that a great deal of it is pieced together from old recordings. ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
I think your paying for the experience and ears of a professional mastering engineer and their monitoring setup which you would hope they know pretty well. No one is really under the impression that people are using hardware compressors or any of that these days.
Plus the benefit of getting someone else to master your own track can't be understated. |
I agree with you except for the words "no one" - you may be more enlightened but I think many others are not. ;)
Besides, a lot of them do have expensive studio equipment... my contention is just that it doesn't make as big a difference as people think. I'd love to have a hardware compressor but it's not a very efficient use of my available funds. |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by dinoXpress
What things should i ask this guy for specifically? |
It's hard to say much without the stereo mix, but I would specifically get him to lower the compressor attack on the snare and increase the threshold on it (i.e. bring it closer to 0.0 dB), since it sounds quite overcompressed now. Of course there's no telling for certain as you say there's already a mix compressor in place. Maybe also see if he can reduce the 250 Hz resonance a bit, or reduce the overall level. Currently, I find the snare really leads the track, which could be what you want...but still.
I'd give the kick a deeper amount of compression, but then again, mastering (or a firmer mix compressor) should help to lock it into the mix better.
The hats are also adding a bit too much brightness in the top-end, so reducing the closed hats a little (anywhere down to -1.0 dB or so) could be a good idea, maybe pulling the open hat down slightly (not as much though, imo) as well to keep the balance between the two the same.
I can't say much about the bell-like lead as it's missing a lot of stereo information, but it doesn't sound very fitting to the track. A slightly lowered volume and/or more compression would be good. Cutting around 5 kHz a bit should reduce the presence and help it to fit better 'in' the mix.
When limiting, ideally you only want to target the peaks, which means in your case the threshold can easily come down by up to 3 dB without doing much harm. This would probably change depending on how the new compressor setting goes on the snare though.
Anyway, some ideas. :) |
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| Atlantis-AR |
By the way, what's that metallic-like sound playing alongside the hihats in the outro? At 6:37, there's the closed hats, the snare...and that sound. That's the big troubling sound that's causing a lot of harshness in the 5 kHz range, so I would advise to reduce that to take the edge of the mix a bit. Probably just do that, and then target the lead around 2 kHz rather than 5 kHz (i.e. reduce 2 kHz to blend it into the mix).
One final thing, that screaming sound is quite loud I find, so I'd pull that back a bit too.
Anyway, my two cents...or 15 dollars. ;) |
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| dinoXpress |
Thanks a lot Atlantis.
Im not sure of what you mean by that metallic sound.. i didnt add in any new sounds by that minute mark.
yeah i think im gonna def reduce the screaming.. its a lil loud in my ears as well..
thanks a lot for all the suggestions and while i may not use all of them, as im a lil low on cash and dont know if ill have enough to get in there and fix it up properly... yet these things will all be in my mind for the next tune.. |
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