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House/Progressive house kits?
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| whiterex |
Hi Guys,
Just wondering if anybody could shed some light on what the common sample sources are for a house/progressive kit. Like I know the 909 is most commonly associated with trance and the 808 gets a lot of credit for electro/r n'b.
Thanks in advance guys. |
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| DigiNut |
The 909 was associated with trance 5 years ago... now it just sounds cliché. 808s are still used sometimes for electro but they're usually cut up, granularly resynthesized, etc.
Bottom line is you're better off making your own kits. |
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| Derivative |
its not really possible to make that distinction anymore. 909 kickdrums and rim shots sound fukcing fantastic and i have a feeling more people would them if they werent so expensive and rare these days. although now you can build 909ish kicks from sine waves in soundforge. run it through some valves and you can get close.
pretty much all techno still use 909 percs, if not the real deal then sampled from a 909 or built from a sine wave/white noise and treated to sound like a 909. that or they use the sample cd 'uebershall techno/trance essentials' which is a huge collection of mainly 909 derived single shots and loops. alot of techno artists like tiga, tiefschwartz and ellen allien all use 909s and 303s. most often linked up. the 303 has dropped out of trance in recent years, although it lives on in practically *every* (and i mean EVERY) psytrance track that came out this year.
the 909 open and closed hats still get used alot in psytrance today. even many psy kicks (that classic 'knocking squelch' you hear on space cat and jaia cds) are based on 909 kicks run through a fast pitch envelope with an inverse exponential curve. the 909 is oh so still with us.
to the OP - house is a pretty damn huge field but alot of it is 909, either straight or layered with acoustic drum loops. the big difference between say funky house drum loops and trance drum loops is in the quantisation - funky house tunes quite often plunder the same 909 drumkit as every second psytrance artist, but theres swing in it. its deliberately quantised out of 16 steps. i mentioned tech/trance essentials - most of the drum loops in the trance section to my mind arent trance at all - its all house. too much swing for trance. |
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| DigiNut |
^ Dude why do you always argue... no, the 909 is seriously not that common, and raw 909 kicks sound anything but awesome. Most productions today are made using sampled drums that either were created from scratch digitally, or sampled from acoustic drums and heavily processed.
Yeah, it's still around, just like the 303, of course it is, but neither are used in "all" or even "most" productions in any genre. 303s are common in psytrance but there seem to be a lot of people who assume any acid sound was made from a 303, which is not the case.
I have a 909 "kit", which is a ton of samples recorded from the 909 at different volumes, which obviously isn't the real thing but it's pretty damn close, and I got bored of it pretty damn fast. |
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| Derivative |
well i find you have to actually, you know...do *something* to the raw samples to make them sound...you know...*good*
secondly, alot of producers now use composites of different kickdrums so the line is not always clear as to whether theres a 909 in there. although alot of the time in psy theres a 909 sample or a kick created in soundforge, built to sound like a 909. straight 909 kicks arent that common anymore sure ill agree with that, except in a few specific styles like techno where it is still here in fuking force. but they are still in there.
as for the 303, thats another thread. but tracks like fatali - city of god, nexus 6 - silicon sound (protoculture remix), space cat - beam me up etc etc all have 303s or real hardware analogue emulations of 303s such as the future retro revolution. and/or various other 303 DIY kits. the only thing in software that even comes close is audiorealism bassline, and its not that in any of those tracks because parts of it are played above C6, which bassline could not do. |
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| whiterex |
| Thanks for the reply guys always appreciated. I have another question I have been trying to create my own kicks by using a standard 909ish kick and some of the sample bass drums out of reason typically im using the 909 for teh bottom end and filtering out the top and the other sample for the top end filtering out the bottom this seems to sounds pretty good although im not sure if the sample would be stable on bigger sound systems. When i open the file in an audio editor like sound forge there is a dfiniate dip in the wave form. So my question is what clues am i looking for in the raw waveform to know if i have botched it or not? :) |
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| Derivative |
it depends on what kind of sound you want to create. usually i use a 909 type kick for the mid and top end since it has a nice solidness to it. 808 sub kicks are really good for the bass part of the kick since they are all sub with only a little click at the start.
usually they are straight modulated sine waves. so they will look really smooth if you look at them in an audio editor. there will be a large spike near the start which is the 'click part of the drum. then theres usually a bulge in the waveform where the thump is. then it tails off.
there are many ways in which you can alter the properties of the kick. i like my kicks to have a nice 'thwumping' attack sound, so i will often take a closed 909 hihat sample, stick a low pass filter on it to take off the sibilance above 8,000hz. fade it out so that its no longer than 700 samples. reverse it, then in soundforge stick it at the beginning of my straight 909 sample with a little offset on the kick (between 500 and 700 samples) so they are lined up right. then i apply an exponential fade on the initial attack phase of the kick.
some people layer other samples with the kick to bring out different properties. sunquest did this remix of sunrise at palamos a while back with a really 'slappy' kick where he layered a drum machine snare with the kick for the whole track.
but returning to the waveform, as long as wave isnt broken or parts of it are significantly louder than the click phase of the drum, then you should be fine. the click phase should be the loudest part by far - and should be the tallest peak in your audio editor. also, if you layer hats with it subtly they will change the smoothness of the kick in your audio editor, making them rougher in appearance.
if the subsequent bulge is bigger than the click then it will sound really 'round' and muddy/blurry. but a little DIY using a small set of samples (a 909 kit is fine) and you can make pretty much any electronic type kick drum with a little imagination. hope that helped. |
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| whiterex |
| Thanks heaps for sharing some of your secrets much appreciated. :) |
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| soundscape_uk |
personally i usually put 3 kick drums on the same fx channel and compress the outta them
dont bother with cutting the lows/his off certain samples, i just try different combinations of kicks for hours till i get sumthin im happy with
not the most productive way i know :D |
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