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'President Bush will nominate U.S. Appeals Court Judge Samuel Alito to Supreme Court'
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| St_Andrew |
At least this time it's a judge! The little I have read about him though, seems like he's a quite conservative judge :nervous:
Discuss :p |
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| h0tsweetbabyd0l |
| a conservative.....:nervous: that sucks ...but i was expecting this choice anyways |
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| HardTranceProd |
| America is steadily regressing to the Dark Ages. :( |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l
a conservative.....:nervous: that sucks ...but i was expecting this choice anyways |
aren't there riots going on you should be worrying about? |
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| Shakka |
Here's something that I'm just not getting. Call me conservative if you must, but I don't think it's a reach. From a NY Times article today discussing one of Alito's more "controversial" positions...
| quote: | The question facing Judge Alito and his colleagues on a three-judge appellate panel was the validity of a 1989 Pennsylvania law that placed various obstacles in the path of women seeking abortions.
All three judges agreed that most of the provisions were constitutional, as the Supreme Court itself eventually did. But on one important point, a requirement that a married woman notify her husband before obtaining an abortion, Judge Alito found himself at odds with his two colleagues, and ultimately with the Supreme Court's ruling, which sparked a debate on the high court that remains unresolved today. |
For shame! You mean if a woman is married, she must notify her husband (who has an equal stake in the matter) that she plans go abort the fetus. And this is controversial WHY?!?
Perhaps I'm speaking from the position of being married, but if my wife and I found out we were going to have a child and suddenly one day she came home and let me know that she'd had the baby aborted, and hadn't felt the slightest obligation to let me know? Well, I can honestly say that the most likely course of action would probably be a tainted marriage likely followed by some bitter fallout, likely divorce.
Yes, a woman's right is a woman's right. HOWEVER, if you're married, you have 2 people involved in the decision and it is NOT a stretch to ask a woman to let her husband know before she has her and HIS future offspring terminated. Married people generally make decisions together. Particularly when they are decisions of this magnitude.
Opus--how would you feel? Just curious since you're probably not far off from the baby situation.
Abortion clinics are in the business of aborting fetuses. Not destroying families. Call me crazy, but I for one see nothing wrong with this position. Is this the best they can do?
As an aside, I'd like to say that I don't think Roe V. Wade will EVER be overturned. Certainly not while I'm alive. It is nothing more than a talking point meant to stir up divisive feelings among the masses. Partial birth abortions, on the other hand, are a different animal. Can't we see past the abortion issue and actually argue on the merits? The SC is not a one-position body. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Here's something that I'm just not getting. Call me conservative if you must, but I don't think it's a reach. From a NY Times article today discussing one of Alito's more "controversial" positions...
For shame! You mean if a woman is married, she must notify her husband (who has an equal stake in the matter) that she plans go abort the fetus. And this is controversial WHY?!?
Perhaps I'm speaking from the position of being married, but if my wife and I found out we were going to have a child and suddenly one day she came home and let me know that she'd had the baby aborted, and hadn't felt the slightest obligation to let me know? Well, I can honestly say that the most likely course of action would probably be a tainted marriage likely followed by some bitter fallout, likely divorce.
Yes, a woman's right is a woman's right. HOWEVER, if you're married, you have 2 people involved in the decision and it is NOT a stretch to ask a woman to let her husband know before she has her and HIS future offspring terminated. Married people generally make decisions together. Particularly when they are decisions of this magnitude.
Opus--how would you feel? Just curious since you're probably not far off from the baby situation.
Abortion clinics are in the business of aborting fetuses. Not destroying families. Call me crazy, but I for one see nothing wrong with this position. Is this the best they can do?
As an aside, I'd like to say that I don't think Roe V. Wade will EVER be overturned. Certainly not while I'm alive. It is nothing more than a talking point meant to stir up divisive feelings among the masses. Partial birth abortions, on the other hand, are a different animal. Can't we see past the abortion issue and actually argue on the merits? The SC is not a one-position body. |
Gack! :wtf:
Heaven forbid that the husband actally be notified let alone have a decision in their child's life! :rolleyes:
/sarcasim |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
For shame! You mean if a woman is married, she must notify her husband (who has an equal stake in the matter) that she plans go abort the fetus. And this is controversial WHY?!?
Perhaps I'm speaking from the position of being married, but if my wife and I found out we were going to have a child and suddenly one day she came home and let me know that she'd had the baby aborted, and hadn't felt the slightest obligation to let me know? Well, I can honestly say that the most likely course of action would probably be a tainted marriage likely followed by some bitter fallout, likely divorce.
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Could it be that the opening is targeted at women who either
- are pregnant with some other guy's child?
- or have been raped/abused by their husband and have yet to muster the strength to go through a divorce?
Depending on how cumbersome/time-consuming formalities are when divorces are carried out in the US, the last point might be valid if the husband cannot be tracked down. What if he stays underground for more than nine months? Do you just kill the baby when he turns up then?
Another, less misanthropic, explanation could be that the judges expect married women to have the decency to tell their husbands before having an abortion, and hence that a law (and consequently the bureaucracy) is not necessary.
Well, at least that's a couple of explanations that I could come up with - although of course I agree that any sane married woman would tell her husband before having an abortion. |
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| HardTranceProd |
| Certain states (like VA and many others) mandate that the person must wait anywhere from half a year to a year before becoming officially divorced. What if she's stuck in a marriage like that?? What if the marriage is abusive and/or criminal. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Certain states (like VA and many others) mandate that the person must wait anywhere from half a year to a year before becoming officially divorced. What if she's stuck in a marriage like that?? What if the marriage is abusive and/or criminal. |
Well then, I guess she should've considered that before she slept with him. Let's not make obscure exceptions the rule. It would still be the husband's baby too.
If she's afraid for her life, she could always call the guy (a pretty brutal way of notifying someone), and then get the out of Dodge. Point is, this is certainly not some extremist position that is asking anything extraordinary of a pregnant woman.
I do appreciate you guys trying to give me a rationale for it though.;) |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Gack! :wtf:
Heaven forbid that the husband actally be notified let alone have a decision in their child's life! :rolleyes:
/sarcasim |
OK, am I the only one who doesn't care if someone is married in this situation. If the attitude is that a husband should be told, shouldn't all fathers? I mean, do you get some sort of ownership over your wife's body when you get married that isn't afforded to single parents.
Honestly, don't you guys feel that 99% of wives would consult their husbands if it were a child conceived accidentally under "normal" circumstances. The reasons that she isnt' going to tell him is if she got pregnant through an affair, got raped, etc. It's not as though women everywhere cheered because they could sneak around their husbands when this law got overturned (Alito being the only dissenting vote).
If your wife isn't going to tell you that she's getting an abortion, you've probably got a lot more problems in your relationship and might want to question whether you'd want to have a child with this woman anyhow. |
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| HardTranceProd |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
OK, am I the only one who doesn't care if someone is married in this situation. If the attitude is that a husband should be told, shouldn't all fathers? I mean, do you get some sort of ownership over your wife's body when you get married that isn't afforded to single parents.
Honestly, don't you guys feel that 99% of wives would consult their husbands if it were a child conceived accidentally under "normal" circumstances. The reasons that she isnt' going to tell him is if she got pregnant through an affair, got raped, etc. It's not as though women everywhere cheered because they could sneak around their husbands when this law got overturned (Alito being the only dissenting vote).
If your wife isn't going to tell you that she's getting an abortion, you've probably got a lot more problems in your relationship and might want to question whether you'd want to have a child with this woman anyhow. |
EXCELLENT post! thumbs up |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
OK, am I the only one who doesn't care if someone is married in this situation. If the attitude is that a husband should be told, shouldn't all fathers? |
In theory, I'd say yes, but I fear you're attempting to blur a pretty clear line in the sand by making a generalization.
| quote: | | I mean, do you get some sort of ownership over your wife's body when you get married that isn't afforded to single parents. |
I wouldn't say this is an accurate statement. Well, maybe in the Middle East, but certainly not in the traditional sense of marriage. Present day marriage represents a union of equals forming a partnership. I wouldn't say anyone acquires an ownership stake outside of being able to say, "She's my wife." Not "She's my wife." But I digress...
| quote: | | Honestly, don't you guys feel that 99% of wives would consult their husbands if it were a child conceived accidentally under "normal" circumstances. The reasons that she isnt' going to tell him is if she got pregnant through an affair, got raped, etc. It's not as though women everywhere cheered because they could sneak around their husbands when this law got overturned (Alito being the only dissenting vote). |
You'd think, so what's the big deal with having it on the checklist. Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's also there to protect the physician? Case and point--woman goes to the doc to get the ole' unwanted baby juice sucked out. She didn't tell her "crazy" husband (as if he's going to be more pleased to find out via surprise), and he blows his top maybe doing something awful to his wife, and maybe even going after the doctor for retribution, or perhaps a huge lawsuit for killing his unborn child without even notifying him.
| quote: | | If your wife isn't going to tell you that she's getting an abortion, you've probably got a lot more problems in your relationship and might want to question whether you'd want to have a child with this woman anyhow. |
Indeed. And as I said in an earlier post, children should not be conceived if this is the situation, but it doesn't somehow automatically override a father's rights because his wife is too much of a (pun intended) to have an open, honest discussion with him.
Nevertheless, my point still stands. This is hardly some sort of extremist idealogical position simply based on the premise that he was the sole (sensible to me) dissenter on this particular issue. |
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