|
Help me improve my mixing (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| mzvirbulis |
| quote: | | And can someone with a lot of detial please explain what the hell phrase matching is!!! |
im quite sure it is having the songA in sync with the structure that of songB.
this so that one doesnt end or start a different phrase while the other is in a different position of the songs structure in timing.
if this happens sometimes you may clash with other stuff, and sounds awful and isn't musically correct!
for example:
songA : OUTRO say goes for 64 beats
songB : intro goes for 64 beats
therefore you let go of record B when songA outro phrase begins (of 64 beats)
this means they are in sync in proper timing. you will know further down the track by what i mean, like phrase means something begins and something stops. therefore nothing is over lapping making clashing of both songs.
this is why you count they beats so you are in the right phrase. so please if you can avoid it dont just let go of songB on any beat. cause otherwise most times it will sound very bad if playing alot of trance etc, sometimes you may get away with simple songs that have long outro's and you can mix it in before it ends.
worst thing is dropping a song late off phrase because it aint smooth and the other song comes in TOO! sunddenly.
cheers mattz
:happy2:
nem might be able to keep it short and sweet, but im only learning all the time.
from what NEMISIS said im up to harmonic mixing which sometimes i cant be bothered atm cause i only mixin at home most of the time. |
|
|
| Trance Nutter |
A phrase is each segment of the song. They last (depending on who you ask) for 16 beats, 32 beats or 64 beats.
This is where knowing you music is really necessary. Listen to a track, every 32 beats something new will happen, whether it be a cymbil crash, breakdown, change of bassline, introduciton of melody etc. The song is made up a whole lot of these 32 beat segments.
phrase matching is cueing your next track so these phrases match up and start and end at the same time. You when you are cueing, cue up to a cymbal crash, or more easily the first beat of the track. Hold it there until you hear a phrase change in the currrent track, and release your cued track.
Once the phrases play out you will be able to notice whether they are matched or not, if they are matched it will be something like this:
. = kick
C = Crash, or phrase change
Matched:
Track A - ....................C..........................C.......
Track B - ....................C..........................C.......
Not matched:
Track A - ...................C..........................C........
Track B - ....................C..........................C.......
And it'll sound crap, noticably wrong.
The first step is to listen to the tracks and pick out the phrases. Don't ask for clarification until you have gone and listened to some tracks, because it is a whole lot easier to hear than explain |
|
|
| FuzzyChicken |
What if you got your cued track in hand and you are waiting for the phase change (ie. cymbal clash or whatever) and you accidentally release the cued track too late in time, or too early? Is there an easy way to fix this so that you don稚 have to start over or something. Is it simple as speeding it up until its correct?
Also how do you know when to start counting? I mean I知 not going to count constantly all the time for every track (not practical or realistic). Do you guys just wait for a phase change (i.e. cymbal crash or whatever) and then start counting and then release the cued track at the next phase change of the song.
One last thing, sometimes when I知 counting I count too slow or too fast and I知 not exactly on time with the 32 beat phase of the track (or 64, etc.) How can I stay in tempo so that I can count precisely with the track? More practice? |
|
|
| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by FuzzyChicken
What if you got your cued track in hand and you are waiting for the phase change (ie. cymbal clash or whatever) and you accidentally release the cued track too late in time, or too early? Is there an easy way to fix this so that you don稚 have to start over or something. Is it simple as speeding it up until its correct?
Also how do you know when to start counting? I mean I知 not going to count constantly all the time for every track (not practical or realistic). Do you guys just wait for a phase change (i.e. cymbal crash or whatever) and then start counting and then release the cued track at the next phase change of the song.
One last thing, sometimes when I知 counting I count too slow or too fast and I知 not exactly on time with the 32 beat phase of the track (or 64, etc.) How can I stay in tempo so that I can count precisely with the track? More practice? |
Well you should be able to know if ou released it too soon or too late, just like when curing normally, so you know whether to slow or speed it. Unless you really bugger it up, you should be within 1 beat of proper time, so you bend it to get it in time like normal and you should be good.
You start counting at phrases. Like I said, go listen to some music and try to pick out the phrases, its easier than you think. Plus, you'll only need to count when you are starting out, after not very long you should be able to feel it. You probably do it now without realising.
As for counting, count the kicks. Surely you can do that, I mean, Beethoven could do that and he was deaf. |
|
|
| Zild |
You don't actually have to count to find the phrase change. You should be able feel and hear when it is about to hit.
Nem that's good advice about the harmonic mixing except I really wouldn't wait that long because then you'll be a year or two behind someone who started mixing harmonically from the get go. |
|
|
| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
You don't actually have to count to find the phrase change. You should be able feel and hear when it is about to hit.
Nem that's good advice about the harmonic mixing except I really wouldn't wait that long because then you'll be a year or two behind someone who started mixing harmonically from the get go. |
Yeah, your probably right.
It was actually a protective statement before I got leapt upon by all the anti HM brigade.
With regards to PHRASE matching I'm actually surprised that so many people have to ask about it. It should be something that comes naturally, but I guess we are all different.
A phrase of a track does vary on the producer and type of music too. Some types of music don't have any real clear phrases such as some techno tracks and it doesn't matter so much there.
You can also be creative with your phrase matching so there isn't a set forumla but the most important thing is that you start the song at the begining of a bar, then when you can sense each bar you should be able to do phrase matching pretty easy.
The key point is to develop your skill so far that you don't even conciously need to count and just know the right place by feel.
But atleast when you can identify a bar then you just need to know that everything else is just a divisible of 4. 8, 16, 32 and 64. As I said, sometimes the structure of the music will dictate the length of the bars.
In trance it's really decided by the length of 1 repetition of the main melody (in most cases).
cheers
Nem |
|
|
| mzvirbulis |
YES, djing is so much more enjoyable when you can just feel everything that is playing and everything just slots into place!
im not sure what it is but its mostly alot of practice, but it's funny because the description as most good dj's say "you just feel it". which i couldnt describe any better! |
|
|
| s3nate |
Thanks for all the replys. Im going to try some phrase matching after school now :D
I know this may bother you but... Harmonix Mixing :conf: :conf: |
|
|
| mzvirbulis |
well to be simple, all songs are set in different key. so if you got two songs with same key it will sound much better than going from three keys above or below. i think you got to be subtle in the way you progrees in key changes, it cant be too dramatic key change.
it's all right now and then if you wanna drop your fav song or something like that but to do that you got to be a good mixer!
i say if you did do something like that you would have to bring the other track in much faster with your eqing etc. you cant bring it in slowly cause sometimes it clashes.
it just depends im no pro so this is my opinion.
good luck mate. ;) |
|
|
| s3nate |
| Sorry for bumping this but another problem has struck me. When I mix it seems that the bass clashes with each other to much. When I mix I use the channel faders and when im bringing the new track in the I lower the channel on the playing track and then put up the fader for the incoming track. This still causes that bass clash, how can I avoid this but still have good mixes that won't be so noticable (kill the bass completely and stuff). |
|
|
| harriz |
| quote: | Originally posted by s3nate
Sorry for bumping this but another problem has struck me. When I mix it seems that the bass clashes with each other to much. When I mix I use the channel faders and when im bringing the new track in the I lower the channel on the playing track and then put up the fader for the incoming track. This still causes that bass clash, how can I avoid this but still have good mixes that won't be so noticable (kill the bass completely and stuff). |
Avoid mixing basslines together unless you have keyed your records.
Its clashing because its off key.
Drop the intro in the mix before the track you will bring in goes to its outro get the timing and the mixing spot on and it will sound ok.
Time it so that when the intro ends the
previous track goes in to its outro.
Layer the track that you are bringing in over the track that you are bringing out.
Slowly mix in & Eq, don't drop the volume on the track you are playing on your first channel while doing this.
Provided that your mixer has enough headroom you should be fine.
Then Eq and slowly bring the track out.
If you want to pull off those 2-3 minute mixes key your records and mash it up! :) |
|
|
| Nemesis44 |
Hands down, the best way to deal with it is to key your records.
Cheers
Nem |
|
|
|
|
