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AntiPhase Problem
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| FrancoR |
Hi everyone, i have a little problem :p
When i put small room reverbs or too "wide" delays i get Antiphase. btw for me sound good, but i dont want have any problem :conf:
Is really a problem the antiphase?
Thanks millon!
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| Atlantis-AR |
As no one has answered here yet, I'm going to do my best by jumping in and hopefully giving the right information. If not, I'm counting on some back-up here. :p
Basically, a little anti-phase content every now and then is nothing to be worried about. When mastering, I use a phase correlation meter and my ears, and stay postive that way (again, a little negative spike on the meter is usually nothing to be worried about), but comparing that with the Waves PAZ Position's output, those few anti-phase peaks are perfectly OK I'd say. It's only when the majority of the master is out of phase that you should be worried about, else you'll end up with cancellation when the track is played back in mono.
In a mix however, things are often quite a bit simpler, and phasing is hardly an issue, especially when you're not working with stereo-miked sources that could give rise to anti-phase content. Yes, certain plugin outputs tend to be very wide (The KORG Wavestation VSTi comes to mind), however it's usually of no concern when, say, the padding has a lot of anti-phase content, since the kick (dominating the majority of the waveform) tends to correct it anyway.
Just check the phase from time to time, especially when you have a wide lead that plays during a solo break, though other times it's really not so much of an issue I think, so long as you don't apply severe amounts of stereo widening to a solo instrument.
Actually, a question I might throw in here is, why is Ozone's correlation output different to that of PAZ Position's? While the correlation meter is still positive in Ozone, PAZ Position reports some anti-phase content. Would it be in the integrity of processing? Using a higher response time on the PAZ Position eliminates all the anti-phase peaks, so I guess that explains it. |
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| J.L. |
thanks atlantis :)
that was actually quite an informative read. |
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| Invertika |
| I put Aif for Life through that analyzer, and it has little spikes into the anti-phase section, so it can't be that much of a problem, but keeping it to a minimum is obviously better |
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| dEEkAy |
Are you making use of a stereo expander?
I hear a lot of tracks overusing them,...Anti-Phase basically means that when you mix or play the track as MONO you may expect problems with the phasecorrelation. (basically it means that your soundwaves delete each other when you mix them down to a mono track [refering to INVERSION]) |
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| Atlantis-AR |
The point is not to analyse the phase of individual tracks, but of the combined waveform as a whole. Kicks tend to have a mono phase anyway, so to a certain extend will correct any phase issues as a result of having too wide padding, for instance. Plus, having just your odd anti-phase peak ever now and then isn't necessary going to detract from the lead instrument anyway (provided this is causing it).
Increase the response time of the PAZ Position a little, and the peaks all but disappear. Of course, you don't want to use too high a value, but it proves that it's all relative. As I said, just check any wide instruments during a break, and particularly ensure that you're not losing the lead instrument. Other than that, you're most probably going to be fine provided you don't overdo the use of stereo expansion, or apply a lot of reverb to bass frequencies. |
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| Derivative |
bit sketchy on it so i would go with what atlantis says. reason im sketchy? the stereo delay on fruity's delay 2 plugin will result in any sound peaking in anti phase. over time i guess i just thought of this as normal.
also, running a spectrum analysis of professional tracks - most (if not all of them) do have destructive phasing going on at some point or other. some of them have ALOT of it going on. |
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| FrancoR |
My english cant express how happy im with this anserws, really usefull info..
Again, thanks alot to all, specially Alantis-Ar :) |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
also, running a spectrum analysis of professional tracks - most (if not all of them) do have destructive phasing going on at some point or other. some of them have ALOT of it going on. |
Yeah, I've noticed this too. And yet, the most important information is still retained when switching to mono. It's all in the art of good mixing. You just need to know what makes and breaks it.
And, FrancoR, glad I was able to help. I'm also a bit sketchy on this subject still, so I hope I haven't given any misleading information. This is just what I've found over the years. I once thought it was necessary to eleminate all anti-phase content (i.e. a negative correlation) from every instrument too, but, although in a way I haven't fully grasped yet, the combining of all the instruments tends to remove phase issues anyway, making the forementioned processing obsolete.
I mixed a track recently where one of the padding instruments was almost completely out of phase, and yet the master phase meter didn't indicate any problems at all - that's where I'm coming from. It's the resulting sound that matters, and going a little out of phase isn't so much of an issue provided the most important information is still retained when switching to mono. Obviously that's also why lead instruments and vocals need to be panned centre, and not have too much width. |
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