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English grammar question
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| trancaholic |
I thought about asking about this in the COR, but then again...:nervous:
Anyways, I'm writing some important text, and I've found that I often end up needing to write something like:
"bla bla bla X, which is bla bla bla" - that is, using "which" to refer to something I just wrote. However, sometimes "X" would be an entire sentence, or at least a part of a sentence, as in: "...any further concerns of the decision maker, which should be addressed by...".
Now, one of my co-authors told me that "which" always refers back to the thing immediately before it ("the decision maker" in the previous example), and I'm wondering if this is true? Any native English speakers that can confirm/debunk this postulate?
(I've tried googling, but "which" results in quite a few pages. :)) |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
Tried dictionary.com? Seems they have the answer you're looking for
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=which
Basically in your example which can refer both to the decision maker and the concerns, so to avoid ambiguity in such cases they suggest using different phrases :) |
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| HardTranceProd |
| The "which" doesn't have to refer to the immediate last word; it can refer to any preceding element. The reader should be smart enough to figure out what it describes, provided the sentence isn't too convoluted. So you should be fine. |
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| Renegade |
| quote: | | Now, one of my co-authors told me that "which" always refers back to the thing immediately before it ("the decision maker" in the previous example), and I'm wondering if this is true? |
It's not something that I've ever thought about before, but I think your co-worker is right. Of the few sentences I can come up with off the top of my head, "which" always seems to be referring to the object of the current sentence or the previous one:
"I have bought a new car which brings great satisfaction to me."
"I have two new cars. Which satisfies me more?"
"I have two new cars, both of which are lemons."
With regards to your sentence:
"...any further concerns of the decision maker, which should be addressed by..."
The "which", here, seems to refer to the word "concerns", but it's difficult to tell without full context. The "which" could refer to "decision maker", but only if the "decision maker" was the object of the sentence, which would constitute a pretty ty sentence structure.
So, if the context is:
"If there happens to be any further concerns of the decision maker, which should be addressed by the 13th of November, please contact Mabel at reception."
Although this is a clumsy sentence ("of" should be replaced by "held by" or something similar), "concerns" here is the object and "decision maker" is the subject. "Which", in this case, would refer to "concerns".
Actually now that I think about it, even if you were to make "decision maker" the object of the sentence, you would have to use "who" instead of "which", presuming that the "decision maker" is a person. The only way that that particular sentence fragment could make sense with "which" still referring to the "decision maker" is if the decision maker wasn't actually a person. So:
"If you have any further concerns of the decision maker, which should be addressed by it's full title of the 'Decision Maker 3000', then please direct them to Mabel at reception."
Again the sentence doesn't really make sense (the first "of" should be replaced by "about"), but "decision maker" in this case is the object of the sentence, so the "which" would be referring to that.
There is also the possibility that I'm talking out of my arse here, so feel free to take all this with a grain of salt. |
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| occrider |
| I still think you should ask the COR for s and giggles. Rly. |
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| Fir3start3r |
May I present...the semicolon... --> ;
Cheers! ;)
[EDIT]
| quote: |
A mark of punctuation ( ) used to connect independent clauses and indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does.
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
It's not something that I've ever thought about before, but I think your co-worker is right. Of the few sentences I can come up with off the top of my head, "which" always seems to be referring to the object of the current sentence or the previous one:
"I have bought a new car which brings great satisfaction to me."
"I have two new cars. Which satisfies me more?"
"I have two new cars, both of which are lemons."
With regards to your sentence:
"...any further concerns of the decision maker, which should be addressed by..."
The "which", here, seems to refer to the word "concerns", but it's difficult to tell without full context. The "which" could refer to "decision maker", but only if the "decision maker" was the object of the sentence, which would constitute a pretty ty sentence structure. |
Reading this I'm suddenly getting really unsure of what the object of an sentence is? In danish we don't have the "A of B" manner of indicating the genitive case, so it really strips me of my intuition here. It gets even worse when we consider entire sentences acting as the object? (Rewardin post, though:)).
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
The "which" doesn't have to refer to the immediate last word; it can refer to any preceding element. The reader should be smart enough to figure out what it describes, provided the sentence isn't too convoluted. So you should be fine. |
Concrete example from the text:
"A chance node represents a discrete variables outside the decision maker's direct control, which we will refer to as a chance variables". Is it obvious what "which" refer to here? (I thought so, but obviously I'm out of my natural habitat here.)
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
so to avoid ambiguity in such cases they suggest using different phrases :) |
Any ideas concerning the last example? I can come up with a few, but they sound terrible if I read them aloud to myself.:(
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
I still think you should ask the COR for s and giggles. Rly. |
Why am I not surprised at this answer...
Done!:wtf:
EDIT: They're already at work. The COR is an unstoppable force of nature.:eyespop: |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Concrete example from the text:
"A chance node represents a discrete variable outside the decision maker's direct control, which we will refer to as a chance variables". Is it obvious what "which" refer to here? (I thought so, but obviously I'm out of my natural habitat here.) |
a chance variable is a discrete variable? right?! that is definitely some confusing text :stongue: |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Reading this I'm suddenly getting really unsure of what the object of an sentence is? In danish we don't have the "A of B" manner of indicating the genitive case, so it really strips me of my intuition here. It gets even worse when we consider entire sentences acting as the object? (Rewardin post, though:)). |
Hm, I think you could achieve the same level of uncertainness in any language if you phrase it in a sufficiently complex way.
| quote: | Concrete example from the text:
"A chance node represents a discrete variables outside the decision maker's direct control, which we will refer to as a chance variables". Is it obvious what "which" refer to here? (I thought so, but obviously I'm out of my natural habitat here.) |
Reffers to a discrete variable, I suppose?
| quote: | | Any ideas concerning the last example? I can come up with a few, but they sound terrible if I read them aloud to myself.:( |
Hmm..say..Chance variables are discrete variables outside the decision maker's direct control and are represented by a chance node?
| quote: | Why am I not surprised at this answer...
Done!:wtf:
EDIT: They're already at work. The COR is an unstoppable force of nature.:eyespop: |
Some good answers I see :) |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Concrete example from the text:
"A chance node represents a discrete variables outside the decision maker's direct control, which we will refer to as a chance variables". Is it obvious what "which" refer to here? (I thought so, but obviously I'm out of my natural habitat here.)
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I dunno about this whole "which" thing, your sentance make sense. Its the grammer that can use a bit of work... (see highlight above) |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I dunno about this whole "which" thing, your sentance make sense. Its the grammer that can use a bit of work... (see highlight above) |
sentence... |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
sentence... |
gjhkiHG! :mad: |
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