|
Would you give up liberty to be secure? (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Trancer-X |
| quote: | The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission - founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.
- Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D. (a former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner) |
|
|
|
| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
It's a sad day when a government believes it's citizens can't be trusted. |
|
|
|
| Steven Hays |
| I personally don't understand why anyone is opposed of spying on our own people. If you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, oh wait the people that don't abide by the law. It's 2006 and technology is ridiculous with what can happen nowadays. No one takes into account what types of crazy terrorists threats we have today. The original constitution didn't take into account people flying airplanes into buildings... |
|
|
| Steven Hays |
| quote: | | Originally posted by ogvh5150 It's a sad day when a government believes it's citizens can't be trusted. |
It's a sad day when we have foreign terrorists growing up in our own country trying to destroy it. AKA 9/11! |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
I personally don't understand why anyone is opposed of spying on our own people. If you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, oh wait the people that don't abide by the law. It's 2006 and technology is ridiculous with what can happen nowadays. No one takes into account what types of crazy terrorists threats we have today. The original constitution didn't take into account people flying airplanes into buildings... |
because the greater powers you give govt the greater their chances for misuse and abuse. its a very delicate balance between liberty & security imo.
we should all be as safe (as possible) from being spied upon by our govt. its a necessary evil but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. |
|
|
| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
I personally don't understand why anyone is opposed of spying on our own people. If you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, oh wait the people that don't abide by the law. It's 2006 and technology is ridiculous with what can happen nowadays. No one takes into account what types of crazy terrorists threats we have today. The original constitution didn't take into account people flying airplanes into buildings... |
Same thing applies to former Sovjet Union, anyone who abided the law had nothing to fear there. So that the Sovjet Union could spy all it wanted on its citizen was a good thing then? |
|
|
| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
I personally don't understand why anyone is opposed of spying on our own people. If you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, oh wait the people that don't abide by the law. It's 2006 and technology is ridiculous with what can happen nowadays. No one takes into account what types of crazy terrorists threats we have today. The original constitution didn't take into account people flying airplanes into buildings... |
That same Constitution gives you the liberty to say stupid things like trying to equate the Constitution as an outdated document. Many laws of the US either get broken or ignored by the same lawmakers that gave them to you. But focus on Osama and forget about the dead GI's in Iraq over non-existent WMD's.
"If you don't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about."
"Since you were arrested you must have been doing something wrong."
"Laws are for those that break them."
"Terrorists do not deserve the same rights as we do."
Sound familiar? That's the way they want you to think.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
Benjamin Franklin
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
It's a sad day when we have foreign terrorists growing up in our own country trying to destroy it. AKA 9/11! |
The same media that told you Osama did 9/11 also told you that Saddam had WMD's. Neither the WMDs or Osama have yet to be found.
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Same thing applies to former Sovjet Union, anyone who abided the law had nothing to fear there. So that the Sovjet Union could spy all it wanted on its citizen was a good thing then? |
Tens of millions of people died from the distrust towards the citizenry by it's government. He doesn't see that. He doesn't believe that it is going that way. |
|
|
| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
I personally don't understand why anyone is opposed of spying on our own people. If you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, oh wait the people that don't abide by the law. |
Why stop there? Why not have an FBI agent in each and every household? What exactly differentiates your argument from this one? We must logically follow your argument to this point, because there is no reason according to your logic why we shouldn't have someone from the government in each and every household.
I mean, if you're not doing anything wrong than who really cares, right?
But perhaps more to the point of current events, perhaps you can explain to me how exactly it damages national security to reveal the fact that we spy on people without secret warrants instead of the fact that we spy on people with secret warrants? Considering the current FISA law allows the government to obtain a warrant up to 72 hours AFTER the wiretap has started, could you please explain the above for me please?
| quote: | | It's 2006 and technology is ridiculous with what can happen nowadays. No one takes into account what types of crazy terrorists threats we have today. |
Quite the copout. Everyone takes into account the types of crazy terrorists. That doesn't necessitate the level of breaking FISA and/or Constitutional law. By breaking such civil liberties we slowly become no better than the crazy ******s and their ed up zealous beliefs.
| quote: | | The original constitution didn't take into account people flying airplanes into buildings... |
The Constitution also didn't take into account that I like salsa on my scrambled eggs in the morning. So ing what? What does that have to do with anything?
The Constitution also didn't take into account some other basic civil liberties like the right for women to vote, the right for African Americans to have the exact same civil rights as everyone else, and so on. But times do change, as do our laws that govern us as we become smarter little critters on this planet. If there are laws that need to be created or changed for our protection, fine - so be it. Allow the Legislative branch to create or change those given laws and allow those laws to be upheld in our Judicial Branch of government.
This works much better than willfully breaking laws which our President has clearly done with FISA, and then stating after the fact that he has a right to do so when he clearly does not. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
|
You're a freeper aren't you? You must have hated Reagan's crusade against big government as that goes against the core ideology of this government. |
|
|
| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
The Constitution also didn't take into account that I like salsa on my scrambled eggs in the morning. So ing what? What does that have to do with anything? |
+1
| quote: | | The Constitution also didn't take into account some other basic civil liberties like the right for women to vote, the right for African Americans to have the exact same civil rights as everyone else, and so on. |
The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property
Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase |
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property
Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase |
So then is Chase the Creator? Is there a separation of Church and State issue here? Is this law even constitutional?
:conf: |
|
|
| ogvh5150 |
No.
Read it carefully. |
|
|
|
|
