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Harper wants a reduction in the GST (and why reducing the GST is not a good idea) (pg. 4)
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
RJ, you have some very good points.
Instead of lowering the GST on everything and encouraging hyper-consumption.
It should be removed on some vital products that people need on a daily basis, while keeping the GST intact on the rest.
Example: unprocessed fruits and vegetables, milk, baby care products, raw meat, heck even bread :)
what do you guys think of that? |
While I do agree in theory, there are many problems with it in reality.
First of all, it is as Jay pointed out, a great way by the government to tell us how to live our lives. But more importantly, there are always ways of fooling such a system, and it would majorly screw up the system. Also, it's really hard to define what should be exempt from sales taxes, so it usually ends up being the wrong things. It would also increase the amount of bureaucracy, in an already bloated and cost-ineffective tax system.
Flat tax systems have proved to be the best in most countries, and should really be applied to income taxes as well... |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
We do not pay taxes on things like veggies, fruits, raw meat, or bread. Baby products, I have no idea about, since I have never bought them. I am suprised nobody already mentioned this, or I just didnt see it.
I thought you were on to something, until i remembered that we do not pay taxes on raw food items, and I have the grocery bills in front of me to prove it.
For the overall agrument, I agree that lowering a consumption tax will not promote saving at home. When people save in such small amounts, they rare think of what they can do with that $3 they just saved on their shopping trip.
An income tax cut, by the same amount, will allow people to see the bigger picture, and a larger amount in the bank. To help promote the idea, I also think, it should be given back at the end of the year, when you file your taxes, as a rebate, instead of lower tax on each pay cheque. Again for the same reason, as I outlined above.
Canadians truly do need help saving, becasue so many of us are in debt(including me!). I know, I am prety good with my money, but saving would be a lot easier, if I got a lump sum, instead of a few cents here and there. |
Again, i dont need the government to force me to save. If we are dumb enough not to save we can pay the consequences ourselves. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
An income tax cut, by the same amount, will allow people to see the bigger picture, and a larger amount in the bank. To help promote the idea, I also think, it should be given back at the end of the year, when you file your taxes, as a rebate, instead of lower tax on each pay cheque. Again for the same reason, as I outlined above.
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You can't cut tax rates and then return the savings in a lump sum rather then apportion it over the period in which the income is earned.... if the government tried to do so they would get slaughtered by people demanding interest. You'd have to work it out as some type of refundable tax credit and I'm not sure how you could make a universal refundable credit work. Opposition would simply view this as a way to increase government cash flow so that they can earn interest off the investment of the money. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
I personally do not consider them to be the old PC party. |
you may not but they do (at least when it suits them). They bill themselves as the PC party in the east and the Reform party in the west just under a new name. If they are trying to ally themselves with their former selves then surely they can also be held accountable for the actions of their former selves. That said, I personally think that elections should not be based on the past but on the future (keeping in mind, however, that past experience can be but is not always an indicator of future performance). |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
RJ, you have some very good points.
Instead of lowering the GST on everything and encouraging hyper-consumption.
It should be removed on some vital products that people need on a daily basis, while keeping the GST intact on the rest.
Example: unprocessed fruits and vegetables, milk, baby care products, raw meat, heck even bread :)
what do you guys think of that? |
Ideally we should not pay PST or GST on anything that is a basic necessity of life (food clothing shelter). If you eliminate the PST and GST from those items and keep them intact for all other items then I would be a happy camper.
Like I have said before....I have no problem in paying taxes so I don't have to pay for certain services that I use everyday and don't pay for at that time. There are many things that I pay taxes for that I never use and that is fine because if there was no taxes for items then the cost for things like snow removal would be a lot higher. |
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| malek |
damn i must've been high on shish taouk because you're right, raw food isn't taxed.............
how about books, baby care products, gym subsrciption, ... |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
damn i must've been high on shish taouk because you're right, raw food isn't taxed.............
how about books, baby care products, gym subsrciption, ... |
How about interest on your mortgage being tax deductible..... I'd be all for that! |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Steve Harper is proposing to immediately reduce the GST by 1% (to 6%) and by another 1% as soon as possible (to 5%).
As a total fiscal conservative: Harper's proposal is not what Canada needs.
Consumption tax is a fiscally conservative concept. Low income tax is a fiscally conservative concept. Prudent budgeting is a fiscally conservative concept. Savings and paying down debt is a fiscally conservative concept.
Reducing the GST supports none of the above foundations of fiscal conservatism.
1) GST is a consumption tax - and is paid by all at point of consumption. The amount you pay is based on the amount of products or services you consume. Everybody pays the same amount regardless of income, status, patronage, etc.
2) Lowering GST will not increase personal savings or reduce personal debt. Canadian's currently do not save. Reduction of income tax increases after tax "take-home dollars" and has been proven to increase savings rates and reduce debt rates.
3) Lowering GST will increase inflation. Inflation risks are very real. Canada's biggest challenge from an economic perspective moving forward is inflation - the Bank of Canada can only increase the interest rate so much (until our dollar goes so high that we further loose our competitive advantage for exports). Lowering the GST will encourage increased consumer spending (and increased inflation).
Harper's move does not make sense to fiscal conservatives (nor economists). For the average family a 1% reduction in GST will save $400 / year.
Goodale's income tax reductions will offer $500 / year savings. Goodale's approach (in this respect) appears to be more fiscally conservative than Harper's. |
The CPC will also unveil personal and corporate income tax cuts soon. I suggest you close this thread until then so there can be a balanced debate. |
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| Matt |
| books, now THERE's a good idea. |
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| Matt |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
The CPC will also unveil personal and corporate income tax cuts soon. I suggest you close this thread until then so there can be a balanced debate. |
That's a really good idea, kind of like how you would close all your Liberal scandal threads before the Gomery report came out. :rolleyes: |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
How about interest on your mortgage being tax deductible..... I'd be all for that! |
Interest is already deductible as an expense on investments (including mortgages).
Primary residence mortgage interest deductibility only leads to people over-extending themselves. Massive consumer debt (including mortgages) is a burden on the economy. I suggest you read more into this and you will quickly see that on the surface it appears to make sense, but in practice it is very dangerous. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Matt
That's a really good idea, kind of like how you would close all your Liberal scandal threads before the Gomery report came out. :rolleyes: |
Shiat, good point! |
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