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Russian TA's??? (pg. 9)
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| Cosmic Fur |
| Ona horosho igraet, ne sporiy, no poka one ne vyigraet hot' vtoroi Grand Slam, trugie igroki vsegda budut ee prinemat' kak vtoruyu Anna Kournikova. |
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| niveole |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
Ona horosho igraet, ne sporiy, no poka one ne vyigraet hot' vtoroi Grand Slam, trugie igroki vsegda budut ee prinemat' kak vtoruyu Anna Kournikova. |
Anna Kurnikova ne sdelala dazhe odnoi desyatoi togo, chto MAsha sdelala za poslednie dva goda!
i po krasote Anna ei ustupaet! |
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| mecha |
imya: ruslan
v kanade: 10 let
iz goroda: yalta, krim |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Until the USA become involved in Europe - Germany clearly had the upper hand in Europe with no end in sight. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
You say that Germans HAD THE UPPER HAND before D-DAY in 1944? |
Actually, no. That is not what I said (see above for what I said).
FYI: America declared war on Germany on December 11, 1941. The declaration was announced by FDR and received unanimous support by both the Senate and Congress.
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Americans... wanted to prevent them (Soviets) from liberating entire Europe. |
I wonder if people from former Eastern Bloc countries would consdier what the Soviets did after WWII to be "liberation". |
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| Tiesto4Life |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
No offense, but that statement very debatable (most historians would disagree with you completely).
America's entrance into the European theater of WWII was THE most significant (and some argue only significant) reason the tides turned against the Germans (allowing the allied forces to win the war).
Until the USA become involved in Europe - Germany clearly had the upper hand in Europe with no end in sight.
Do not get me wrong, I'm not saying Russia didn't do anything... What I'm saying is that the European and Russian powers couldn't reverse the momentum of the Nazis until America became involved (afterwhich Russia contributed significantly). |
tipichni' otvet ot kanadona katorova prepodavali v etoi dibil'ni kanadskoi shkolni' sistemi. "america viigrala vtoruyu mirovuyu i esli bi ne oni..."
ne nado sporit lyudi doragie, vse znayut shto nashi zdelali v eto tejoloe vremya.
to rj: american entrance into world war two helped much in the west but russia did not rely on americans at all, in fact americans didn't even participate in the war on the eastern front. by the time americans stepped into the war, russians were already backing up the germans on the east (after germans roared into russia). Yes americans helped in the west and hence the germans could have used more of their ammunition and soldiers towards the eastern front but that's not taking any other considerations and only putting germans vs russians in the entire war, which never happened. But on the eastern front, it did. It was germany vs russia, with no american support at all. And by the time the americans stepped in, the germans were already kicked out from the russian territory by the russians.
you can argue and argue about history and it will never go away b/c no one knows 100% from their own eyes. but i just think that the entire canadian school system when it comes to history is so anti european (especially russian) and pro american. and it is wrong. this whole idea that they mount on the kids foreheads that americans won WW2 is just ridiculous.
there will never be peace on earth. everyone knows that. but it could improve and it all starts from a school system put in place. if you teach history, you should teach history of the world and how everything happened according to the eyes of the entire world, not just from the eyes of your own nation.
i was always taught/told by these teachers that canada is the biggest country in the world. when i told them they were wrong and that it was actually russia, they replied that not after the soviet union broke up. now you see what I mean by this system? |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tiesto4Life
but it (peace) could improve and it ... starts from a school system put in place. |
Agreed 100%. |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tiesto4Life
tipichni' otvet ot kanadona katorova prepodavali v etoi dibil'ni kanadskoi shkolni' sistemi. "america viigrala vtoruyu mirovuyu i esli bi ne oni..."
ne nado sporit lyudi doragie, vse znayut shto nashi zdelali v eto tejoloe vremya.
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shto smeshno, shto kakda ya uchilsya v 10tom klasse, nam govorili shto nashe pobedili v moskve potomushto bylo ochen holodno dlya nemetzkih saldatov i oni otstupili.
nekogda ne govoryat shto vse kto mogli vaivali protiv nih shtobe moskvu ne vzali |
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| Durafei |
| quote: | | tipichni' otvet ot kanadona katorova prepodavali v etoi dibil'ni kanadskoi shkolni' sistemi. "america viigrala vtoruyu mirovuyu i esli bi ne oni..." |
V USSR prepodovali v debil'noy Sovetskoi shkol'noy sisteme, kotoraya tozhe bila polna propagandy. Tak chto etot argument tut naverno ne k mestu.
Anyways.. how the did this turn into "Who won WW2 thread??" |
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| chikaladka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vanos
Po teme ya s Ukraini s zaporozhya |
:eek: ya iz ukraini........
s zaporozhyi toje....
zavut karina :D |
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| bluE_Neon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Actually ... its the bad Russian and Soviet leaders like Stalin that caused the murders, not the ordinary Russian people, and they actually killed more of their own people than of your Polish people. Alexander II was the last great Russian leader before Putin, in my opinion, and he ruled from 1856-1881.
As of World War II, if you dont know it well, Poland was offered to join both the Soviet Union and Germany - Germany offered alliance, Soviets wanted it as part of Soviet Union. Polish people were too proud and insubordinate, and thought they could withstand both empires. So as a result Germans and Soviets took up both. As Germans OBLITERATED their western Polish chunk with luftwaffe and blitzkrieg, the Soviets were welcomed on the east, with only the bulk of Polish brass being murdered (as same was done with soviet brass as Stalin was insane).
During World War II, when Soviet armies approached Warsaw and were preparing to liberate it from German oppression (dont forget Germans killed WAY MANY MORE Polish people than Soviets did, and dont deny th Holocaust), Polish patriots decided to liberate the city themselves. So while the Soviets were preparing for an attack on Warsaw, polish underground forces rose up to fight Germans to liberate their own city, and paid a heavy price for it, with over 200,000 Polish people dead and beautiful city in ruins. Why blame the Soviets when they were going to liberate you in 2 weeks and everyone including the Germans KNEW IT WILL HAPPEN!
You should read a great book called Archipelago Gulag by a legendary Russian writer Solzhenitsyn, it will open your eyes to the truth of brutality of communism who oppresed the Russian people and others and set my culture back many years, stole and sold many historic Russian historical artifacts like from Hermitage (as an example) and destroyed many landmarks for the sake of their communist terrorism. |
Where the hell were the Soviets when WWII started?
Soviets & Germans signed a pact in 1938, a pact for which it was convient for both of the countries. Hitler feared the Soviet Empire temporarily because he knew the Germans would not stand a chance, mainly because Soviets had more man power. Soviets had more man power but army & technology was obsolete, so he knew he would have an advantage over Soviets in time. That time came in 1942. Stalin was surely happy with the pact but he had no idea what the genious was planning.
By 1938, Hitler already occupied Czechoslovakia & Austria and he exactly knew what he wanted to do, escalate rest of Europe. Poland was NEVER offered a alliance with Germans & Soviets. That's just a absurd comment. I've stated this before, Germans were our enemies, always. Germans had Blitzkrieg & Luftwaffe (best offensive strategy of that era), but that didn't stop us from defending our land. We were outnumbered but we fought to the last blood of every men.
Oh yea, great help from you Soviets that we've received. :rolleyes: While Hitler occupied all of Europe, expect GB, you were just sitting their, full of fear in the deserted land. In 1942, the Germans stormed through most of Russia but 1 thing stopped Hitler from reaching Moscow. The Russian Winter. If it wasn't for the winter, Hitler would easily take over Russia and than the world would be a totally different place, that's for sure. "Lucky" Stalin knew he had devastating losses already and taught that the Germans were weaker BUT they weren't. It took nearly almost another year & a half to get the Germans out of Russia.
The Holocaust killed millions of people but you know what, at least the Germans killed us with vicious cold blood, while the Russians, well I don't think it's necessary to state their tormented ways. No need to carry on.
I read Gulag (Glawnoje Uprawlienje Lagieriej) by Anne Applebaum, an American writer, who talked with numerous survivors and digged through the artifacts. I was a bit skeptical with the author because she's American but she's married to a Polish man, so I gave her a chance.
Gulag represses the age of Stalinism, Communism & their brutality. It's a book about Russian concentration camps, work camps, camps for kids, camps for women in Syberia and all over the "Motherland". It's a tremendous book because throughout the centuries, the world knew everything about Germans, yet nobody knew anything about the real Soviet land. I don't recall reading anything about Russia's sentimental values in the book. There's another great book that focuses on the Dark Side of Communism and can't wait to get my hands on that! |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by bluE_Neon
great help from you Soviets that we've (Poland) received. |
You're right - Stalin's Soviet Army did very little to help Poland.
Upon urging from the west, Stalin had agreed to halt Soviet progress just east of the Vistula River in Warsaw. When the Warsaw Uprising was approved FDR and Churchill sought air-rights and landing-rights from the Soviets (to make air-drops of supplies to support the Polish uprising against the Nazis). The Soviets refused to co-operate (read: help the Polish resist the Nazis) and went as far as shooting down many cargo aircraft (including non-military medical supply aircraft).
Magnetonium is correct however in that the Stalinist regime never represented the majority of the Russian people. Stalin's tyranny ran the USSR and made it impossible for descent. Without actually having lived under such circumstance it is impossible to fully understand people's state of mind or actions. This is a very important distinction to make. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by bluE_Neon
Where the hell were the Soviets when WWII started?
Soviets & Germans signed a pact in 1938, a pact for which it was convient for both of the countries. Hitler feared the Soviet Empire temporarily because he knew the Germans would not stand a chance, mainly because Soviets had more man power. Soviets had more man power but army & technology was obsolete, so he knew he would have an advantage over Soviets in time. That time came in 1942. Stalin was surely happy with the pact but he had no idea what the genious was planning.
By 1938, Hitler already occupied Czechoslovakia & Austria and he exactly knew what he wanted to do, escalate rest of Europe. Poland was NEVER offered a alliance with Germans & Soviets. That's just a absurd comment. I've stated this before, Germans were our enemies, always. Germans had Blitzkrieg & Luftwaffe (best offensive strategy of that era), but that didn't stop us from defending our land. We were outnumbered but we fought to the last blood of every men.
Oh yea, great help from you Soviets that we've received. :rolleyes: While Hitler occupied all of Europe, expect GB, you were just sitting their, full of fear in the deserted land. In 1942, the Germans stormed through most of Russia but 1 thing stopped Hitler from reaching Moscow. The Russian Winter. If it wasn't for the winter, Hitler would easily take over Russia and than the world would be a totally different place, that's for sure. "Lucky" Stalin knew he had devastating losses already and taught that the Germans were weaker BUT they weren't. It took nearly almost another year & a half to get the Germans out of Russia.
The Holocaust killed millions of people but you know what, at least the Germans killed us with vicious cold blood, while the Russians, well I don't think it's necessary to state their tormented ways. No need to carry on.
I read Gulag (Glawnoje Uprawlienje Lagieriej) by Anne Applebaum, an American writer, who talked with numerous survivors and digged through the artifacts. I was a bit skeptical with the author because she's American but she's married to a Polish man, so I gave her a chance.
Gulag represses the age of Stalinism, Communism & their brutality. It's a book about Russian concentration camps, work camps, camps for kids, camps for women in Syberia and all over the "Motherland". It's a tremendous book because throughout the centuries, the world knew everything about Germans, yet nobody knew anything about the real Soviet land. I don't recall reading anything about Russia's sentimental values in the book. There's another great book that focuses on the Dark Side of Communism and can't wait to get my hands on that! |
First of all, fact: Germany SIGNED NON-AGRESSION pacts with Poland, France and Soviet Union before invading Checkoslovakia to make it look like they were only invading a couple surrounding countries and thats all, and their non-agression pacts showed that even though they invaded a country, they had no plans for additional expansion. Or so they wanted everyone else to know.
Second of all, Soviet technology wasnt obsolete at all - otherwise they would have never won WW2. And they didnt steal any of German technology until the invasion of Germany itself. So there you go. Dont forget the T34 tanks (still used today) and their IL-2 Shurmoviks and their famous Katyushas - first ever rocket bombarding weapons that Germans badly feared. Its not the primitive weapons that were the problem. It was the lack of leadership and most of all, stupidity of Stalin.
While Germans divided Poland (I guess there wasn't any "alliance", but there was non-agression pact with Germany, plus Soviets offered it to join USSR), Soviets didnt just watch, they participated too. Before Operation Barbarossa Stalin received spy intelligence info that Germans were planning to invade SEVERAL TIMES, but the dumbf*ck dismissed them as lies and ordered some of the people who reported it SHOT! He never imagined Germans would fight a war on two fronts ... Even on the day of invasion he didnt believe the war was happening until 6 hours after Barbarossa started! Stalin was the worst leader in Russian history - thats just one example.
If Soviet Union lost the war, Germans would have exterminated the 'sub-slave' second-class Slav, Jew and gypsy populations and made entire Europe German-speaking. Noone can argue that and its not just because of Holocaust. Polish people were considered by Germans as second-class citizens and German 'supreme' race had their own special RESERVED FOR GERMAN PEOPLE sections on buses, stores etc. It was a law. Thats my entire point. As bad as communism was and how stupid Soviets were, they saved the Europe from extermination.
Oh, the Russian Winter did not stop Hitler as silly books say. Hitler simply put his attack on Moscow on hold, since he was only making slow progress on that front as resistance was becoming tougher closer to Moscow, as he knew Stalin was pulling his reserve troops on Moscow front to protect the capital. Instead Germans advanced into south-central Russia and pushed into Caucasus to solidify their position in south and cut off Soviet Union from its gas and oil fields in the south - to try to circle Moscow from the south. Winter talk is absolutely ridiculous. No offense ... the war still continued on OTHER FRONTS and for 3 more winters and both Soviets and German DIDNT PAKE ANY PAUSES IN WAR IN OTHER WINTERS ON ANY OTHER FRONTS so this winter excuse is silly :) The war didnt go on pause in the winter of 1941-1942 and Germans advanced in the other parts of the Soviet Union - Stalingrad (which was snowed out as well!!!)
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