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The Belinda Bounce
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| Jayx1 |
Ive noticed mostly Lois Brown Conservative signs on the lawns of my riding.
Could Aurora-Newmarket be doing the Belinda bounce (out of office)? Or will we win the Toronto Sun Butthead award for re-electing her?
Remember the toronto sun's first butthead award went to Hamilton voters after they re-elected sheila copps when she resigned over the GST. |
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| TrickDaddE |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Ive noticed mostly Lois Brown Conservative signs on the lawns of my riding.
Could Aurora-Newmarket be doing the Belinda bounce (out of office)? Or will we win the Toronto Sun Butthead award for re-electing her?
Remember the toronto sun's first butthead award went to Hamilton voters after they re-elected sheila copps when she resigned over the GST. |
And now the PC's want to cut the GST by 2%???
Then they will probably reduce or cut-out the GST rebates that those lower income indivuduals would normally get!!! |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TrickDaddE
And now the PC's want to cut the GST by 2%???
Then they will probably reduce or cut-out the GST rebates that those lower income indivuduals would normally get!!! |
Harper said in the debate that although the GST would get reduced, the rebates would REMAIN THE SAME. |
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| TrickDaddE |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Harper said in the debate that although the GST would get reduced, the rebates would REMAIN THE SAME. |
Well thats good but you of all should know what the left-hand gives the right-hand taketh away!!! Or is it the Right-hand giveth and the Left-hand Taketh??? LOL!!!! |
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| Jayx1 |
| if thats true then i worry about paul martin's income tax cut (which wont help the poorest canadians at all) |
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| AwakenedAddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Harper said in the debate that although the GST would get reduced, the rebates would REMAIN THE SAME. |
Typical conservative tactics. Citing a position without fact or evidence. Just because Harper said that the GST reduction would be equivalent to the proposed liberal reduction in income taxes, does not make it so. Furthermore, if the two policies are in fact the same, why would Harper then propose the GST tax cut at all? IN actuality, a GST reduction would be highly regressive. People who make more spend more, and thus they will save more from the GST cut. However, an reduction in the income tax of lower and middle class Canadians will provide money to the families who actually need it. Finally, in addition to the direct benefits generated from these proposed tax cuts, different spill-over effects will also occur. However, suffice to say that they are not similiar in any way, except the total fiscal impact on the government budget (which is what Harper probably means when he says that the tax cuts are the same; a tactic that is HIGHLY misleading to the average citizen and voter!).
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| Jayx1 |
Want a good example?
The disabled and welfare recipients DONT PAY INCOME TAX BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE INCOME. And i would classify them as the most disadvantaged in society. Also people who earn under $8000 a year dont pay income tax so they will not see a tax cut either. A GST cut will help everyone including those without an income. An income tax cut will not.
To say that a GST cut is a bad idea is ludicris.
In fact less than 12 months ago Paul Martin was on record saying that ANY tax cut is a bad idea.
I guess things change around election time eh? |
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| AwakenedAddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
The disabled and welfare recipients DONT PAY INCOME TAX BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE INCOME. And i would classify them as the most disadvantaged in society. Also people who earn under $8000 a year dont pay income tax so they will not see a tax cut either. A GST cut will help everyone including those without an income. An income tax cut will not. |
If they HAVE NO INCOME, they WONT BE BUYING MANY THINGS, and hence the disabled will not benefit from a GST reduction. As for your example of a person with $8000 income: yes they don't pay taxes, and yes they will not recieve a direct benefit from an income tax reduction. However, considering their low income and hence meager means of consumption, a reduction in a CONSUMPTION tax will only be marginally beneficial to such people. People who consume more, will benefit more (it's not a hard connection to make).
Stop pretending that the conservative party actually cares about the welfare of the average Canadian citizen; if you really cared about income disparity, you would not vote conservative, considering the Conservative policies which seek to further repress poor and lower income families (such as the proposed childcare rebate, restrictive welfare policy, etc.). Poor people and their children need affordable education and employment, not a reduction in the tax they pay on their meagre consumption. The conservative solution is to blind the electorate by promoting equal distribution of benefits (such as the GST reduction), despite the fact that the need for monetary aid is overwhelmingly concentrated at the bottom end of the income spectrum by it's very nature.
You go by beer and popcorn, I'll give my rebate to charity and someone who actually needs it. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by AwakenedAddict
If they HAVE NO INCOME, they WONT BE BUYING MANY THINGS, and hence the disabled will not benefit from a GST reduction. ... |
people seem to forget that...7% on nothing is nothing.
If you want to benefit the poor, remove GST from essentials, like food. Remove it from books to benefit students and promote literacy.
Removing/reducing the GST for people who actually *spend money* (ie. lower-middle class families) is more an issue, I would think, than it is to the poor.
income tax cuts benefit everyone and they can be tailored more to the people who need it most (ie. reduce it for lower income brackets). A broad cut to GST doesn't equalize anything...it doesn't bridge the wealth gap at all...why should some millionaire be targeted essentially "the same" as the lower class? This is some socialist agenda I'm pushing, but the bulk of the "savings" to citizens will be enjoyed by the people who consume the most, not the poor.
Income tax cuts put money back into an employee's pocket *right away*...it doesn't require them to spend in order to save. Further, for those who earn too little to benefit from an income tax cut...maybe we should put that 2% GST "savings" to better use by instead putting that money into resources that will result in them having a better paying job in the first place. Take that 2% and instead of cutting the GST, earmark it for education and job training.
A GST cut is buying votes...by the Conservatives giving back SOME of the tax that the Conservatives implemented in the first place.
Funny how the Liberals are the ones getting slammed for "giving back what they took in the first place" with their budget, yet the Conservative supporters are applauding a GST cut.
nice *double standard* ;) |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Want a good example?
The disabled and welfare recipients DONT PAY INCOME TAX BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE INCOME. And i would classify them as the most disadvantaged in society. Also people who earn under $8000 a year dont pay income tax so they will not see a tax cut either. A GST cut will help everyone including those without an income. An income tax cut will not.
To say that a GST cut is a bad idea is ludicris.
In fact less than 12 months ago Paul Martin was on record saying that ANY tax cut is a bad idea.
I guess things change around election time eh? |
it *is* a bad idea from a gov't standpoint...any cut = a reduction in revenue which has to be made up somewhere else...especially if people are crying for more spending.
give the disabled and welfare recipients some other incentive...a rebate, something...but why lose that 2% in tax off the upper middle class and the wealthy??? That's just dumb, IMHO... |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AwakenedAddict
If they HAVE NO INCOME, they WONT BE BUYING MANY THINGS, and hence the disabled will not benefit from a GST reduction. As for your example of a person with $8000 income: yes they don't pay taxes, and yes they will not recieve a direct benefit from an income tax reduction. However, considering their low income and hence meager means of consumption, a reduction in a CONSUMPTION tax will only be marginally beneficial to such people. People who consume more, will benefit more (it's not a hard connection to make).
Stop pretending that the conservative party actually cares about the welfare of the average Canadian citizen; if you really cared about income disparity, you would not vote conservative, considering the Conservative policies which seek to further repress poor and lower income families (such as the proposed childcare rebate, restrictive welfare policy, etc.). Poor people and their children need affordable education and employment, not a reduction in the tax they pay on their meagre consumption. The conservative solution is to blind the electorate by promoting equal distribution of benefits (such as the GST reduction), despite the fact that the need for monetary aid is overwhelmingly concentrated at the bottom end of the income spectrum by it's very nature.
You go by beer and popcorn, I'll give my rebate to charity and someone who actually needs it. |
Of course people who earn less will spend less. So the idea in life is to earn more. They call it EARNING for a reason. This GST cut will allow everyone to save. Of course those who spend more will save more and rightly so. But a dollar here and there means a lot more to someone on a foxed income than it may to you. And to say that saving $100-200 a year for someone on a fixed income "is nothing" is severly underestimating just how much a dollar means to those people. |
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