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Toronto island noise whiners compare noise to smoking (pg. 3)
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| MarkT |
^^^ absolutely...then change the laws!
Too bad that won't happen as there is virtually zero political pressure to do so. |
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| spitty |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
maybe I can assume I'm one of those usual suspects :tongue3
comparing noise to smoking is just stupid...I'm not even going to address that...it's an illogical remark
IMHO, the Docks should NOT lose it's liquor license, but they should be forced to comply with the noise bylaws with proper sound insulation and by restriciting outdoor events to the appropriate times, just like any other business. Guv can't put a speaker outside at midnight, so why should the Docks be allowed to do so?
done.
revoking the Docks license is wrong...expelling the Island residents is wrong.
As for the lease...that is just for the land. Those residents still buy the home, they still pay taxes, and their community is self-sufficient in that no extra public money goes their way. They pay for all of there own services, just like the rest of us. Blame the gov't that granted that lease, not the residents who took advantage of the opportunity presented to them.
Guys...look at it this way...any rulings set a precedent. If they "kick out" the Islanders, what legitimacy does ANY gov't lease then have? If the ignore the noise bylaws, by what right does the city enforce them elsewhere?
This is more than just the case at hand as it will most likely have ramifications for any future cases.
I think there's a middle ground and it's pathetic that it can't be reached by all parties involved. The Docks and the Islanders CAN co-exist... |
agreed.
can someone explain to me this 1$ thing that the island residents have. i'm afraid i'm new to TO, and have never heard about this before. what do they have different from regular landowners and how did it come into place?
thanks |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
^^^ absolutely...then change the laws!
Too bad that won't happen as there is virtually zero political pressure to do so. |
Well then it's time to put some on them :) Jay's idea of a demonstration for example is a great initiative :)
Ppl with a liberal point of view needs to start bitch as well, otherwise the ppl whineing on everything will win. |
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| 7-4-7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
we should organize a protest on their street. We should fight back against this small group that is holding the city hostage whether its the island bridge, the airport or clubs and party boats. These people need to be told off. I'll even write and send the press releases.
Anyone interested? |
Alright you know what I am down, I have decided that 2 full days of bitching about this situation warrents me a supporter of the "anti-island people" clan. I would be willing to devote my time and energy into this illogical situation.
I want to know the facts about what both sides want, and specifically what the island people want. (I like to refer to them as that because it automatically pushes them to the fringes of our city and of human reasoning skills)
Show me the facts and I am in. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
If they are braking the noise bylaws, I suppose the laws needs to be changed. There is no need to defend a law that doesn't make sense. So just saying "it's a law so they are doing the right thing and we should not complain about this" is just ridiculous. |
Just because the law doesn't make sense to you or to any of us doesn't mean the majority of people think the law doesn't make sense. We can't just go around thinking laws should be changed to suit our needs.
Being that I have never been on the island during a Docks Event I cannot comment on how loud it is. I do know that sound does travel over water so it is quite possible that this is more then a "closing your window to solve the problem" problem.
I believe there is a middle ground and both sides should be looking at a way to resolve the matter at hand. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
maybe I can assume I'm one of those usual suspects :tongue3
comparing noise to smoking is just stupid...I'm not even going to address that...it's an illogical remark
IMHO, the Docks should NOT lose it's liquor license, but they should be forced to comply with the noise bylaws with proper sound insulation and by restriciting outdoor events to the appropriate times, just like any other business. Guv can't put a speaker outside at midnight, so why should the Docks be allowed to do so?
done.
revoking the Docks license is wrong...expelling the Island residents is wrong.
As for the lease...that is just for the land. Those residents still buy the home, they still pay taxes, and their community is self-sufficient in that no extra public money goes their way. They pay for all of there own services, just like the rest of us. Blame the gov't that granted that lease, not the residents who took advantage of the opportunity presented to them.
Guys...look at it this way...any rulings set a precedent. If they "kick out" the Islanders, what legitimacy does ANY gov't lease then have? If the ignore the noise bylaws, by what right does the city enforce them elsewhere?
This is more than just the case at hand as it will most likely have ramifications for any future cases.
I think there's a middle ground and it's pathetic that it can't be reached by all parties involved. The Docks and the Islanders CAN co-exist... |
The city kicked out the islanders on centre island in the 60s in the public's interest. Why cant they do it again? Lets make that whole island a park and make the portlands a people place as well. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
^^^ absolutely...then change the laws!
Too bad that won't happen as there is virtually zero political pressure to do so. |
but thats my point. We need to bring on our OWN political pressure instead of litting the nitwits set the tone. |
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| MarkT |
I'd prefer to see forced mediation...
the noise laws are pretty clear...so either the Docks is breaking them or their not. Noise is measurable. So why the subjectivity and confusion in this case??? |
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| basilisk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
this is why the lease needs to be broken. The province needs to pay off the difference and count it's losses. Then they need to be kicked off the island and those hovles need to be bulldozed. Centre island park and all of its fun wouldnt exist today had politicians not been brave enough in the 60s to kick everyone off of those islands and bulldoze the huts that were there. Too bad they stopped before they got to ward island.
The city kicked out the islanders on centre island in the 60s in the public's interest. Why cant they do it again? Lets make that whole island a park and make the portlands a people place as well. |
What a load of ! The province isn't losing anything at all, and the good people of Toronto could benefit greatly by spending some time and chilling out on Ward's. Center Island is one big ganky tourist trap, and it's large enough as it is. If they were really running out of space they could always get rid of the enourmous frisbee golf course of all things, not the fine community over at Ward's!
You're problem is that you haven't been to Ward's, from what I read. Maybe you like a city choked with roads and auto fumes with scuzzy buildings blocking off the horizon - perhaps, like many Torontonians, you don't know anything different. However... a $6 ferry ride away and you're in a completely different place, outside of the Metropolis with all it's problems and worries. Ward's is my getaway, and I'm not alone in finding the place special! From a psychological stand-point it's the best remedy for the blues aside from getting on a plane and flying somewhere far away at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Nowhere else in this godforsaken urban wasteland do you find a community laid out with streets that are used exclusively by pedestrians and bicycles. It's a cozy slice of cottage country on our very doorstep, and everyone is welcome. I would have a much different opinion were the community insular, rejecting the big city across the pond, but it's not like that. Anyone at all is welcome to rent out a room on the island for a night for some R&R, and the community has hundreds of thousands of visitors every summer season. Everyone is cool, and even if you are a strange city kid with freaky hair like I am they'll treat you nice. Yes, it's true that I'm making a defense of Ward's based on something as intangible as psychological well-being... but in a city such as Toronto, such a thing should not be undervalued. This is a city with such odious urban planning that it's no wonder we're known as the grumps of Canada. Is Dundas Square going to lift anyone's spirits? How about Downsview Park? We've got Ward's, and I strongly believe it's worth keeping as it is.
| quote: | Originally posted by daves
I'd like to be over on the Islands one night during one of the Docks' big parties and see just how loud the noise is... is it really that loud still after carrying across the water?
has anyone here heard it first-hand? |
It really is ing noisy over there on a weekend... I speak from many nights of experience. As an EDM fan I can't say it bothers me personally, but I understand why the Islandes are sick of it... the thumping is not a distant muffled whump-whump-whump, it's in-yer-face and loud as . As much as I don't care for big clubs like the docks and the idiots that seem to find such a place so bloody important, an extreme solution to this conflict is not called for. In fact, it's a classic situation where a compromise would work quite well, if all the rhetoric could be disposed of. No one's family home needs to be bulldozed, and no one's beloved pit of sin needs to be shut down. The militant BS in this thread isn't going to solve anything.
That's my 2 cents anyway. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by basilisk
What a load of ! The province isn't losing anything at all, and the good people of Toronto could benefit greatly by spending some time and chilling out on Ward's. Center Island is one big ganky tourist trap, and it's large enough as it is. If they were really running out of space they could always get rid of the enourmous frisbee golf course of all things, not the fine community over at Ward's!
You're problem is that you haven't been to Ward's, from what I read. Maybe you like a city choked with roads and auto fumes with scuzzy buildings blocking off the horizon - perhaps, like many Torontonians, you don't know anything different. However... a $6 ferry ride away and you're in a completely different place, outside of the Metropolis with all it's problems and worries. Ward's is my getaway, and I'm not alone in finding the place special! From a psychological stand-point it's the best remedy for the blues aside from getting on a plane and flying somewhere far away at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Nowhere else in this godforsaken urban wasteland do you find a community laid out with streets that are used exclusively by pedestrians and bicycles. It's a cozy slice of cottage country on our very doorstep, and everyone is welcome. I would have a much different opinion were the community insular, rejecting the big city across the pond, but it's not like that. Anyone at all is welcome to rent out a room on the island for a night for some R&R, and the community has hundreds of thousands of visitors every summer season. Everyone is cool, and even if you are a strange city kid with freaky hair like I am they'll treat you nice. Yes, it's true that I'm making a defense of Ward's based on something as intangible as psychological well-being... but in a city such as Toronto, such a thing should not be undervalued. This is a city with such odious urban planning that it's no wonder we're known as the grumps of Canada. Is Dundas Square going to lift anyone's spirits? How about Downsview Park? We've got Ward's, and I strongly believe it's worth keeping as it is.
It really is ing noisy over there on a weekend... I speak from many nights of experience. As an EDM fan I can't say it bothers me personally, but I understand why the Islandes are sick of it... the thumping is not a distant muffled whump-whump-whump, it's in-yer-face and loud as . As much as I don't care for big clubs like the docks and the idiots that seem to find such a place so bloody important, an extreme solution to this conflict is not called for. In fact, it's a classic situation where a compromise would work quite well, if all the rhetoric could be disposed of. No one's family home needs to be bulldozed, and no one's beloved pit of sin needs to be shut down. The militant BS in this thread isn't going to solve anything.
That's my 2 cents anyway. |
Im sure its a nice cozy place away from the city. And i would have no problem with people living there. However here is the problem. They seem to think they can live there AS IF IT WERE COTTAGE COUNTRY.
Well its not. Its next to a big city, a huge industrial area and a lake full of people engaged in recreation and partying. This is why it might seem like i lack tolerence now for them. If they want to have a nice little community thats fine, but they have to remember that even though it may look like cottage country, they are still next to a big city that was there long before they were.
Total peace and quiet belongs in cottage country, not toronto island.
PS i dont think they should commercialize ward's island. The islanders should just quit while they are ahead, thats all. |
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| basilisk |
| When you're negotiating for 6 apples you demand 20 apples. Not that hard to understand, is it? I doubt they've lost sight of the fact that they've got a big city on their doorstep... it would be impossible! After all, the cityscape is what makes the view so gorgeous. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by basilisk
When you're negotiating for 6 apples you demand 20 apples. Not that hard to understand, is it? I doubt they've lost sight of the fact that they've got a big city on their doorstep... it would be impossible! After all, the cityscape is what makes the view so gorgeous. |
they are out to shut the place down. Its obvious that this is what will make them happy. They also whine and bitch about the party boats. They also stopped the airport bridge from happening. They want it all.
In turn, ill be happy when they make their neighbourhood into a park. |
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