|
Stop Bush's Oil War/The Terrah War Machine prepares for Iran attack (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
How much is Iran paying you or your cronies? Make no mistake about it - sitting around, waiting for Iran to make weapons, while dialoguing, will not bring peace. It will bring temporary calm, until they ramp up production of warheads. Unchecked, US will be in sights within months. And unlike your hippie friends, nukes don't make distinctions between peaceful americans or warmongering counterparts.
Get real, if you're on the same continent as EU or US - you are a target.:rolleyes: |
OMFG :haha: :haha: i just choked on my pretzel...reminds of me of the President. |
|
|
| donnybrasco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psygnosis
What i get confused most is how u call America the western friendly country when you know they are doing this. How can you possibly call this as a friendly act. Whats the difference between scumbag thiefs who rob your everday convenience to US stealing something from one other.
No middle eastern country is denying America or any other country to buy oil but what America wants is to have it for free for the their own benefit. Friendly? I think not. |
Saddam was NOT friendly to anyone! A modern day Hitler who wanted to run the world by controling all of the oil. He tried it when he took Kuwait, and he wouldnt' have stopped there had he succeeded. The only reason he hadn't moved on his ambitions to dominate the middle-east since was because of embargos and because his army was so thoroughly destroyed in the first Gulf War. You just can't go buying oil from a guy like that...because he's going to take the profits, build up his military and start World War III. The man had to go, and counties and governments all around the world were glad to see him go.
The problem with being a pacifist is that while the theory is sound, it will NEVER hold water in the real world. There will ALWAYS be an agressor willing to take advantage of pacifists. It's pie-in-the-sky idealsim, but it's not the reality of life. Human beings make war on each other. We likely always will until such time as our brain chemistry changes somehow and the willingness to make war on each other is evolved out (or this may never happen...it could even get worse in fact!).
I think the problem everyone has with Iraq is not that Saddam should have stayed anyway, it's that the U.S. "lied" about why we really went in there.........but it's this kind of un-realistic pacificism that made the lie so necessary in the first place, I'm guessing.
People need to grow up and see the world for what it really is. You want to blame someone for the war? Blame yourself, the oil-gulping consumer...it's for you that these wars are fought. |
|
|
| trancec0re |
I hope my post was motivation for ppl soooooo tired of the bull in the media about this war. Case in point: Americans torturing Iraqis. These two-faced reporters go on CNN or Fox News (the biggest ass ki$$er of your cracked out President dumb dumb) and talk about it being so bad. Then before they can even take a BREATH they are saying how there are so many insurgents, American soliders scared for their lives, and the possibility those being tortured were insurgents. Hmmm....can I smell complacency? Yes sir, I do.
For those who came out in such a brutal attack of my plea for help (which btw might keep your SORRY ASSES out of Iran, when the draft comes), all I can say is continue living in your glass houses. The big imperaliastic countries tried to subjugate the Indians (the British in this case) and got themselves bombed/shot right out of the country. Same goes for the Spanish, who couldn't handle anti-Spanish in South America & finally left. Then there are the British (again!), who tried to administrate Israel and were thoroughly trashed and bombed by both the Jews and the Muslims. Some in the U.S. think we can bring peace to the Middle East. Yes, we were trying that and it worked out well before the Second Intafadah. To think that shooting at Iraqis and pushing our brand of democracy there will ever work is foolish. All the while, billions are being spent each month to impose this "democracy".
Look, Iraq does NOT want us there. This war is costing us billions, do you want some numbers from a bipartisan source? When we leave, the place is going to go RIGHT BACK to the way it was within a matter of years. If we with Iran, we are going to turn over 2 billion Moslems against the U.S. really really quick. Do you want 2 billion people, some of which make even some of our abortion-protesting, death penalty supporting "Christian" extremists look tame, coming after this country? They have no reason to yet, of course they're angry. And when they read about the same B.S. of Saddam (who was the lesser of two evils and still is, by many European/Asian heads of state & Parliament) and these 'weapons of mass destruction' (LOL! We sure found A LOT of them didn't we!? HAHHH!), gassings, etc...well it really really pisses them off.
with Iran, and we are going toward World War III. Who is suicidal to want THAT? I sure am NOT!!! I encourage people with some sanity to consider getting -OUT- of the Middle East and letting those own people run their country. As for Iran, we don't need to invade and try the same . A few well-placed missiles will bring their nuclear program to their knees. Aren't our beloved international spy agencies good enough to send in some operatives and take out these scientists? Is the U.S. military such a BIG that it can't send in some Navy Seals and put a bullet in some of these Iranian mullahs who talk anti-U.S. sentiment? Come on, we can do it. That would sure do a lot better than what is being planned right now.
Full scale invasion of Iran? OMG.....that is lunatic talk. Another 2,000+ U.S. troops dead _FOR_NOTHING_. There are better alternatives. The U.S. military wants to hear nothing of it...they think they're right and damned how many billions or thousands dead for them to be right.
Just like Vietnam.
Again!
I hope you don't want this nightmare to happen, because it could with people sitting on their hands.
As for me, I'm no tree hugging hippie. I'm a lily white brown haired blue-eyed American. None of my friends are Muslim, I'm not multicultural in any sense of the word. But I walk the walk and talk the talk, though. I respect people's cultures and beliefs, which apparently many in the U.S. do NOT. Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. There is no way I am going over there. I spend a large amount of my time keeping other people out of Iraq/Iran, because I have my strong beliefs. When it comes to keeping teenagers from making THE biggest mistake of their lives (going to Iraq/Iran to DIE for the oilmen), I do my best to change their heart to NOT go. That's called saving someone's life. That's not so bad.
What have you done like that lately, huh?!
Click here for a little Vietnam history
And on last thing that really really bothers me. You talk about Saddam & him controlling the world's oil supply. Buddy, the U.S. gets less than 25% of its oil from the Middle East. Iraq makes up about .....let me get the statistics from the Opec site. I know it's not even 6% of world oil output.
Price of oil in 2001, pre-September 11th: $1.10-$1.25/gallon Regular
Price of oil currently: $2.15-$2.30/gallon Regular
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
So where the is Saddam as a skapegoat for this?? |
|
|
| donnybrasco |
| ^^^I've had friends from Iran who tell me quite the opposite; That many average Iranians want the U.S. to over-throw their currently very oppressive and ass-backwards government...so who's right? I'll take the word of the people who have lived there and who have relatives living there as to what's in the hearts of the people, verses your theories. |
|
|
| trancec0re |
| quote: | Originally posted by donnybrasco
^^^I've had friends from Iran who tell me quite the opposite; That many average Iranians want the U.S. to over-throw their currently very oppressive and ass-backwards government...so who's right? I'll take the word of the people who have lived there and who have relatives living there as to what's in the hearts of the people, verses your theories. |
Well buddy, you can talk alll the you want but I highly doubt you have ANY Muslim friends. If you did, you'd realize the system in place has worked well for Iranians for well over 2,000 years. (btw, I doubt you know ANYTHING about Middle East history, so keep spitting your diatribe my way, I'll post what you said, word for word, as a good laugh on our website!)
Now onto Iranian history. Hmmmm, there was this guy named the Shah who the U.S. and British installed against local feelings & advice. He was a murderous BASTARD who killed his own people and created a secret police rivaling the Romanians & Russians. A quote from the Wikipedia site:
| quote: | | The Shah also authorized the creation of the secret police force, SAVAK (National Organization for Information and Security), infamous for its ruthless persecution of dissidents, and is believed to have overseen its operation personally |
Ahhh, another infamous proof of the United States love of "fostering democracy". Seems a bit strange that the CIA also personally trained Saddam and had no problem w/him for over 20+ years in Iraq. He was a good scapegoat for the whole Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran/Syria/North Korea operation. Now we're laughing at him. And calling him bad names openly. The U.S. wasn't so keen on this back in the 70's and 80's, when he did some of his worst against the Kurds (generally regarded as trash by most Turkish and other Moslems) and of course Saddam really hated the Shi'ites, who hate other Iraqis (the rest of which are Sunni or other religions). The Shi'ites are allied with Iran and live in the south of the country, away from Iran. They are a tough crowd to please. Unfortunately, some of the biggest oil fields are in the SOUTH of the country. So we are screwed...we have Sunnis in the north hating us, Shi'ites in the south hating us, and the world community looking at the extra 6% oil production we control right now. They are mighty pissed their oil prices have doubled & tripled. WTF!? Shouldn't they have gone down by now?
The world community speaks louder and with more authority than the neoconservatives in the White House. Hey, I think the rest of the world was around a lot longer than the U.S. They have more experience with foreign affairs and keeping the peace. We have so little support over there (just like Vietnam, another U.S. led war that no country but the U.S. supported) and are getting our butts spanked. I can't wait to see the bill when this TOTAL FARCE is over with. Trillions of dollars FOR NOTHING.
The Kurds are a pain in the ass, view some English-written Muslim news sites and read for yourself. As for the Shi'ites, I thought you hated them anyway? So bad Saddam gas them, too? They are Iranian after all. Atleast in your narrow view. I can never understand bigots, really. You seem to be all about the U.S. being right, but history and FACTS (Wikipedia is no "hippie" site, mind yah) point otherwise.
We just need to get the Hell out of Vietraq and certainly not go into Iran. Death and world war await those who dare to piss off the Middle East. There is a chance to salvage peace with the Muslims, but its going to take much work to undo what Bush Sr. and Shrub (Bush Jr.) have been doing.
Thanks for your words, it's only motivated me and my friends EVEN MORE to get as many young kids to steer away from the military. I'll have a good laugh reading what you wrote and reply back in a few days....
For those who want to stop the war, give Objector.org your help. The less troops we send to the Middle East, the better chance at crippling the war effort. This house needs to be brought down, but I know that justice will prevail.
Mission accommplished.
My ass............Buck Fush!! |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
^^ yes, thats right! -becoz of the US\' murky past they shouldnt ever try and do anything ever again. i mean, whats the point? in 100 years people will still be pointing out all the ups they made in this century, so they may as well stop wasting their time.
they (and the EU) should definitely sit on their arses whilst yet another country obtains nuclear weapons. coz the world needs more weapons i say.
no country on this planet can ever take the moral high ground. theyre all guilty of one thing or another. why stop at talking about CIA training a few decades ago? why not bring up atrocities committed against the native americans? surely with that sordid history they should never be allowed to comment on human rights abuses ever again!
the idea that the US is *always* wrong is just bull and im fvcking tired of constant US bashing for all and everything they ever do. i mean . i want people to illustrate to me how any other nation that has shouldered anywhere near similar amounts of the world\'s problems havent done evil things as well. now, im not excusing that evil thats for sure, but how a current political position can be undermined by the political position held decades ago by a separate administration is beyond me. situations change, leaders come and go.
again, the idea that the US is the big bad guy is only gonna allow countries like iran to get away with more; and anyone that thinks iran developing nuclear weapons is a good thing is a cockhead. now, if you dont want iran developing the bomb ask yourself how we\'re ever going to prevent that if push comes to shove? who\'s gonna be taking on that responsibility?
yep. the US is certainly fvcked up a lot of the time but i challenge any of you goddamn hippies to point to a country of any consequence that is any better. |
|
|
| MisterOpus1 |
I'm just curious, anyone seen bin Laden lately?
Heard he was still alive.
How's that War on Terror going?
And can someone tell me why it was so prudent to leave the area where bin Laden was hiding so we can invade another country that had nothing to do with the heads that actually attacked us?
And then can someone also tell me how installing an Islamic fundamentalist Shiite regime that's in leagues with Iran is a positive outcome to our invasion on a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and the heads that attacked us?
And can someone also tell me about this "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" thingy?:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1593607,00.html
And then can someone tell me about how Bush was going to go to war 2 months before he invaded:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world...ticle342859.ece
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq...1700881,00.html
And why Bush clearly stated otherwise just prior to invasion:
And then can someone tell my why Bush said this in October of 2002:
When in actuality the DIA reported that the source of that claim made by Bush, a detainee al Qaeda terrorist "“could not name any Iraqis involved, any chemical or biological material used or where the training occurred. As a result, ‘it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers?’”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5110501267.html
Or when Bush said this on Sept. 28, 2002:
When we actually learn this:
"One week after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, White House counterterrorism director Paul Kurtz wrote in a memo to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that no ‘compelling case’ existed for Iraq’s involvement in the attacks and that links between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s government were weak."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20021107-2.html
Thanks a gob. These are just but a few small little tidbit details that keep seeping through that darn tin foil hat of mine. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psygnosis
God your a idiot, so your saying it's fine for a western friendly (sorry i laughed when i typed this) to invade a country, kill over 20000 innocent civillians for their own benefit, and thats a friendly government? Sheez, take your head out of your ass you ignoramus.
Your basically a fool who gets pulled in with this propaganda about US is trying to help the others, but hey, your too stupid to be taught the right beliefs so why bother, huh?
Come on, try to say something stupid again.
Heres a hint, when you throw together your hatrick of one way comments, keep them to yourself, your just making Americans look bad. |
So having a successful free election counts for nothing??
A lot less people died there so they could have a free election in Iraq than the millions who died sacrificing their lives just so you can have the option to vote here.
You either have no idea why people vote or one of those who choose not too because they believe it won't change anything.
Either way, it's a disgrace... |
|
|
| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So having a successful free election counts for nothing??
A lot less people died there so they could have a free election in Iraq than the millions who died sacrificing their lives just so you can have the option to vote here. |
Quite correct. They've died and suffered, the Shiites that is, and now we've helped install a regime where their Islamic fundamentalist rule is now supreme. It's also quite a compliment to their neighbor, Iran.
Speaking or Iran, they had quite the successful free election themselves, haven't they? Too bad they installed a nutbag dictator in their free election who spites Israel and the U.S.
Oh, and those darn pesky Palestinians sure love their free elections too, electing in Hamas as the ruling government.
It's funny - a lotta these Middle East Arab and Muslim countries seem to be getting the hand of a free and "successful" election, just not the way we had hoped perhaps?
Or I guess you could do what Rummy does, equate his enemies like Chavez down in Venenzuela to the free election of Hitler. Guess he only likes those democracies where the U.S. can control or somethin'. |
|
|
| trancec0re |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
yep. the US is certainly fvcked up a lot of the time but i challenge any of you goddamn hippies to point to a country of any consequence that is any better. |
This "goddamn hippie" (who doesn't need to resort to name calling someone he's never even met, let alone doesn't understand) would like to point out four countries you might have missed:
-Norway (almost brought peace between Arafat, Rabin & Clinton in 1993)
-Sweden (long time peace supporter that uses it $$$ to support peace & literary campaigns worldwide)
-Denmark (see above three)
-Netherlands (hey Tiesto!!! They know how to party AND they are support worldwide peace efforts, too)
Those four countries have done more to promote peace in the past 30+ years than the U.S. did in over 225 years. Why don't you educate yourself here a bit. Realize that the U.S. is only as strong as its citizens who stand up for JUSTICE. There is _NO_ justice in war. There is only death and sorrow.
This "goddamn" hippie thanks you personally. Have a nice day, alright :) |
|
|
| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancec0re
This "goddamn hippie" (who doesn't need to resort to name calling someone he's never even met, let alone doesn't understand) would like to point out four countries you might have missed:
-Norway (almost brought peace between Arafat, Rabin & Clinton in 1993)
-Sweden (long time peace supporter that uses it $$$ to support peace & literary campaigns worldwide)
-Denmark (see above three)
-Netherlands (hey Tiesto!!! They know how to party AND they are support worldwide peace efforts, too)
Those four countries have done more to promote peace in the past 30+ years than the U.S. did in over 225 years. Why don't you educate yourself here a bit. Realize that the U.S. is only as strong as its citizens who stand up for JUSTICE. There is _NO_ justice in war. There is only death and sorrow.
This "goddamn" hippie thanks you personally. Have a nice day, alright :) |
And with this going on with the cartoons, all 4 of those countries you just mentioned are going to get sucked into this mess. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancec0re
This \"goddamn hippie\" (who doesn't need to resort to name calling someone he's never even met, let alone doesn't understand) would like to point out four countries you might have missed: |
touchy arent we? i wasnt singling out you. i was talking to the people who always view the US as wrong. still, if the cap fits...
| quote: | Originally posted by trancec0re
-Norway (almost brought peace between Arafat, Rabin & Clinton in 1993)
-Sweden (long time peace supporter that uses it $$$ to support peace & literary campaigns worldwide)
-Denmark (see above three)
-Netherlands (hey Tiesto!!! They know how to party AND they are support worldwide peace efforts, too) |
i particularly liked the really tough stance sweden took against the nazis, and how they stood up for freedom. *claps hands*
now, do you think norway or the US was more instrumental in those peace efforts with the roadmap??
and exactly how many of your chosen countries were liberated by the US during the war?? oooh, all of them that actually fought.
Yep, the US are evil 100% of the time.
| quote: | Originally posted by trancec0re
Those four countries have done more to promote peace in the past 30+ years than the U.S. did in over 225 years. Why don't you educate yourself here a bit. Realize that the U.S. is only as strong as its citizens who stand up for JUSTICE. There is _NO_ justice in war. There is only death and sorrow.
|
i love it how you disagree with someone and suddenly you need to be educated. and i said countries of consequence; ie those that are constantly called upon on the world stage to do things. i dont remember any of those nations you have mentioned actually doing anything that came at any great cost, tho im more than happy for you to point out where i am wrong. its easy to hold talks. but peace comes at a price, and sorry but i dont remember those countries spending a lot of money or manpower bringing things like the balkans wars to a close. |
|
|
|
|
