|
Philosophy part 2
|
View this Thread in Original format
| D-res |
as with my last philosophy thread (found here,) i have to write a paper based on the paper i wrote for the last thread, only a lot longer. this thread can be about anything.
A lot of great points were raised in all of the discussion in the last thread and I'd like to see this again.
You can talk about any philosophical issue, but the issue i'm concentrating on is, like last time, the issue of an all-powerful and benevolent God being compatible with pain and suffering.
EDIT: by the way, since i know some of you will bring up that i'm flip flopping on my issues, i want to forewarn you that i'm going to pay devils advocate. I will present my thoughts from time to time but i'll be spending the majority of the debate disagreeing with all of you to help push the arguement on, regardless of what my beliefs are, which i'm not going to blatently say for the sake of forming biased opinions for those actively participating
---------
i know a lot of people find a lot of interest in this and many other philosophical topics and Spirit5 brought up an idea in the site suggestion forum for a philosophy-based discussion area for this forum. if you think its a good idea, go here and show your support.
lastly, since there are some VERY intelligent people who lurk almost solely in the political discussion/debate forum, i'll be making a thread linked to this thread in there. |
|
|
| washout |
| quote: | Originally posted by D-res
an all-powerful and benevolent God being compatible with pain and suffering. |
to get started.
more of a belief though with a logic structure.
i dont believe any god would allow life to edure pain and suffering.
therefore, i do not believe there is a god.
or
we have a god and he is unfair.
but we all have learned life is unfair.
and to look out for ourselves outside of beliefs.
which puts me back at the beginning.
no god. |
|
|
| D-res |
well of course if a creature endures pain because of human action, based on the fact that God gave us free will, then you cant deny that it would in fact be compatible. he may be all powerfull and all loving but if he intervenes (sp?) with our act of free will then he's denying us to freely use that gift. It also could be that since the rules more or less for getting into heaven is living a good sinless (as possible) life, and by our harming another animal and causing it pain and suffering is just a way of "testing" us. we do things like that, we're sinning and we dont deserve to be accepted into heaven.
in the case that a creature suffers completely free of human cause, then you could argue that its the devils work or whomever you want to blame for the cause of evil. according to the christian idealogy of a God whom set rules and an angel or however many angels said no, we're not going to follow those rules and were cast out of heaven. it could simply be that they are the root of this evil.
plus i have to ask, do you believe that a bird or a fish for example is conscious? of course to a certain level they may be aware of their sorroundings and aware that some thing or things are causing them discomfort but are they really conscious to the extent of being able to understand their own lives and survival? since according to christian teachings, there is no such thing as an animal heaven, do we know that perhaps God doesnt care about all these creatures running around, atleast to the extent of helping them in times of pain? since God created man, and our lives are a test for whether we should be accepted into heaven or not, then it doesnt matter if other creatures are suffering, since they arent the subject of this science experiment we call life. what matters is how we act while we're here on earth. |
|
|
| washout |
i didnt really agree/disagree with any of that.
you make valid points.
| quote: | Originally posted by D-res
in the case that a creature suffers completely free of human cause, then you could argue that its the devils work or whomever you want to blame for the cause of evil. according to the christian idealogy of a God whom set rules and an angel or however many angels said no, we're not going to follow those rules and were cast out of heaven. it could simply be that they are the root of this evil.
|
i think evil is in us.
it comes from within us and through us, hurts us.
we have to get it right ourselves.
its a failsafe plan in the end. |
|
|
| D-res |
| well in the section you quoted, the idea of evil being part of human nature alone, then how to do you explain pain and suffering that is in no part cause of human interaction or free will? just the sick cycle of life? |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| There is one reason and one reason only that God created humans with free will.... he/she/it wants us to choose to love him/her/it. It is not enough for God that we love God, we must want to love him. Really, this only makes sence because what good is love if one is compelled to love. Due to free will being essential to the very reason we were created any impingment on our free will would result in negating our purpose. Subsequently, while an all knowing and powerful God could interviegn on our behalves and safeguard us from pain and suffering doing so would deny him the reward for which he created us therefore he refrains. |
|
|
| Pjotr G |
| how are you gonna know joy if you know of no sorrow? |
|
|
| _Nut_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
There is one reason and one reason only that God created humans with free will.... |
Where is god. Ive never seen proof of him, nor proof of his existence. Where is your god when people are killed from terrorists, where is your god while homeless people starve to death, where is your god when some of the most kind and compassionate people are striken down from this earth.
God is merely an illusion from across time.
I have to leave for work else I would further my arugement. |
|
|
| Demoted |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pjotr G
how are you gonna know joy if you know of no sorrow? |
Joy comes in a bottle, I know joy. |
|
|
| Psy-T |
| as said in your previous thread, omnipotency and omnibenevolence are incompatible. |
|
|
| Demoted |
| Oh, and since we're talking about religion, here is my perception of religion, religion is a night light, metaphorically. Many children are scared of the dark and use a nightlight to cope with it. They are scared of the intangibles, what could possibly happen. Humans are generally scared of death. Scared of the fact that the things they have achieved here on earth could be moot as inexorably you will just rot in the ground whether you invented the shuttle or just injected heroin you got after you sucked off three people for a cheap seedy gram. Thusly, religions are created to cope with the intangibles that come with death. It's pretty basic human nature to me. |
|
|
|
|
