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Toughest smoking ban yet passed in US
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| Jake Benson |
From the New York Times
| quote: | By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: March 19, 2006
CALABASAS, Calif., March 17 — One of the toughest antismoking laws in the nation took effect here Friday, the same day that a satirical movie about a reptilian tobacco lobbyist, "Thank You for Smoking," opened across the country.
"Pure serendipity," said Barry Groveman, the earnest environmental lawyer who also serves as mayor of Calabasas, a well-to-do community of 25,000 people on the western fringe of Los Angeles. Mr. Groveman said he was glad that the coincidence would help draw attention to his city's efforts to limit the harmful effects of secondhand smoke.
The smoking ordinance, which was unanimously passed by the five-member Calabasas City Council last month, prohibits smoking in all public places, indoor or outdoor, where anyone might be exposed to secondhand smoke. The ban includes outdoor cafes, bus stops, soccer fields, condominium pool decks, parks and sidewalks. Smoking in one's car is allowed, unless the windows are open and someone nearby might be affected.
Smoking scofflaws face warnings, fines of up to $500 for repeat offenses, and misdemeanor charges.
City officials and antismoking activists describe the ordinance as one of the most comprehensive efforts to regulate secondhand smoke anywhere in the world. It comes just weeks after the California Air Resources Board declared secondhand smoke to be a toxic air contaminant that can lead to respiratory infections, asthma, lung cancer, heart disease and death.
California, ever in the forefront of social trends, has been a leader in limiting when and where people can smoke. Cities and towns around the state began banning smoking in offices and restaurants more than 15 years ago, and lawmakers enacted a statewide ban on smoking in restaurants, workplaces and public venues in the mid-1990's. Smoking has been prohibited on most Southern California beaches and piers since 2003.
The movement has spread nationwide. More than 700 cities around the country have enacted ordinances placing some limits on outdoor smoking, according to the American Nonsmokers' Rights Foundation, a research and advocacy group that supports antismoking legislation.
Calabasas wants to "push the envelope," Mr. Groveman said, adding, "This is clearly a groundbreaking public health law."
"This is the right time and the right place to take this step," he said. "We hope it will be the way things are done all over the country and all around the world."
The ordinance encountered little resistance. The Chamber of Commerce and the city's restaurant association supported it, as did virtually every citizen who appeared at public hearings. Tobacco lobbyists never weighed in, Mr. Groveman said, and a spokesman for Philip Morris, the nation's largest cigarette maker, did not return a reporter's telephone calls Friday.
It was tough to find an aggrieved smoker at the Calabasas Commons outdoor mall Friday morning, particularly after it started raining. In fact, television crews filming reports on the law outside a Starbucks outnumbered smokers 5 to 0, by actual count.
The nonsmoking citizens appeared delighted by the new law and by the attention it brought to their enclave of gated communities, horse farms and Mediterranean-style condominium complexes.
"The best thing that could have happened was what they did," said Marlene Kolinsky, 63. "The smoking gets right in my eyeballs."
Larry Chambers, 73, who quit smoking 30 years ago, said he was also pleased about the new law, in part because it protects smokers' rights by allowing any business or office building to designate an outdoor smoking area away from foot traffic.
Mr. Chambers said the ordinance enhanced the city's image.
"The good thing is Calabasas gets recognized as a healthy community," he said. "And it helps property values."
The first plume of cigarette smoke spotted in Calabasas on Friday came from, of all places, a fire station a few hundred yards from city hall. Thomas Duda, a Los Angeles County firefighter, was savoring a Marlboro Light on the driveway outside the station.
"We were just talking about this new law," Mr. Duda said. "We're completely in the dark. Who's going to enforce it? Are there going to be designated areas? And what if I'm out front here and someone from the City of Calabasas comes by?"
Have no fear, Mr. Duda, said Michael Hafken, the city's communications director. First offenders will get off with a gentle warning and a breath mint. |
Is this going too far? I don't think it is. I think this is great. :) I want to move here now. |
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| St_Andrew |
| I think it's going way too far, obviously it won't hurt anyone (except for the person that is smoking) if you are smoking outside. Just a way to make smokers life harder, which I disagree with even though smokers are stupid for smoking. |
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| Lepanto |
| i love the NYC smoking ban, for the most part, but this is rediculassse. |
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| Marc Summers |
I don't like this.
Because if cigarettes can be banned, then Marijuana will never become legal. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
I don't like this.
Because if cigarettes can be banned, then Marijuana will never become legal. |
No necessarily....just look across the border ;)
*Pfffffffffffffffffff* Hey officer! :p |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
I don't like this.
Because if cigarettes can be banned, then Marijuana will never become legal. |
I'm hoping they flip-flop. Or meet half way. I my ideal world in the future, both will be legal but confined to private quarters.
Moreover, cigarettes are being banned on the basis of empirical research. Marijuana was banned on the basis of racism. As people replace bias with scientific research, they'll realize that marijuana is less harmful when compared to cigarettes.
I'm allergic to cig smoke. I can *easily* get sore throats when I pass a cloud a smoke or have to walk through some outside walkway where a bunch of people are crammed together smoking the out of each other. What am I to do when I pass through a buss stop with 10 people smoking? Walk into the street? What am I to do when I have to walk well over 150 feet outside to get to an inside venue when five-thousands Asians are smoking (this is Spundae last night)?
You learn in school at an early age, "DO NOT SMOKE." If you start after that, then you deserve this law. Besides, drinking alcohol is legal, just not in public either. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
I'm allergic to cig smoke. I can *easily* get sore throats when I pass a cloud a smoke or have to walk through some outside walkway where a bunch of people are crammed together smoking the out of each other. What am I to do when I pass through a buss stop with 10 people smoking? Walk into the street? What am I to do when I have to walk well over 150 feet outside to get to an inside venue when five-thousands Asians are smoking (this is Spundae last night)? |
thats pretty unfortunate, but you would certainly be in the minority there. whilst i sympathise with the non-smokers out there (ive recently become one *scratches nicotine patch*) i think banning it in public places is going too far. ban smoking inside, sure. but if i wanna have a smoke outside somewhere i think i should be able to. passive smoking is only a real concern to those that have to do it all the time (or those that might be allergic, but thats just unlucky). walking through a small crowd of smokers aint gonna kill you, not when you consider all the carcinogens pumped out by your cars, yet nobody seems to give two s about that.
cant see people really following the new laws either. i know if i was still a smoker id ignore it for sure. |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
thats pretty unfortunate, but you would certainly be in the minority there. |
Only a minority of people get killed in alcohol-related car accidents, but drunk-driving is still illegal. ;)
| quote: | | but if i wanna have a smoke outside somewhere i think i should be able to. |
I agree. But if I don't want to smell your smoke then I think I should be able to breathe clean air.
| quote: | | walking through a small crowd of smokers aint gonna kill you, |
It can if you walk by CROWDS of smoke all the time (because they can't smoke inside) AND you have a close family history of cancer.
| quote: | | not when you consider all the carcinogens pumped out by your cars, yet nobody seems to give two s about that. |
Is there any empirical evidence that shows a correlation between that and lung-cancer and an array of other diseases?
And I am 100% for electric cars. But someone invents one, and then some big corporation buys the rights to it and then NEVER produces any. They are waiting until we deplete all of our gas and oil resources and then one day in the future they'll say, "Glorify us, for we have just now discovered electric cars and are the true loyal leaders in a cleaner society." So I'd back a ban on gas cars. ;)
| quote: | | cant see people really following the new laws either. i know if i was still a smoker id ignore it for sure. |
They probably won't, and it's not like they're getting years in prison. Most people will get reminded and that's all. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
Only a minority of people get killed in alcohol-related car accidents, but drunk-driving is still illegal. ;) |
thats a non-sequitur. anyone can get killed by a drunk driver, whereas not everyone is that allergic to cig smoke ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
I agree. But if I don't want to smell your smoke then I think I should be able to breathe clean air. |
well, you know what i do? and i do this when walking behind cars as well, i hold my breath. yes, im very talented ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
Is there any empirical evidence that shows a correlation between that and lung-cancer and an array of other diseases? |
not that i know of, but imo thats coz of lack of performed studies more than anything. think about older vehicles using leaded fuel. you gonna tell me all that lead in the air is good for us?? ;)
considering how much smoking one must do to develop smoking-related cancer i just dont see how serious passive smoking can be if its the random, walking-past-a-smoker-on-the-footpath* kind of situation. i have much more sympathy for those forced to work in pubs & clubs.
*footpath = sidewalk ;) |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
thats pretty unfortunate, but you would certainly be in the minority there. |
I would also like to point out that people who allergic to peanuts are the minority. BUT I CAN'T EAT PEANUTS ON A PLANE! :whip: :whip: :whip: :whip: :whip:
Seriously, that gets me so MAD! |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
I would also like to point out that people who allergic to peanuts are the minority. BUT I CAN'T EAT PEANUTS ON A PLANE! :whip: :whip: :whip: :whip: :whip:
Seriously, that gets me so MAD! |
Same reason they don't serve pork so the Jews don't get mad.
But there's no ban against bringing your own peanuts. And you eating peanuts doesn't harm those who are allergic (unless you spit in their mouth). |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, you know what i do? and i do this when walking behind cars as well, i hold my breath. yes, im very talented ;) |
I do the hold breath technique too. But any little second-hand smell aggrevates my throat. And here are my conditions (just so you understand where exactly I live):
-I live within walking distance of many shops, grocery stores, clubs, restaurants, etc.
-I have to walk onthe side-walks
-patios, "outside extensions," and people congregate right outside every other building, restaurant, shop, that I walk by.
-Sidewalks are about 15 feet wide
-I have to step into the street so that I can avoid getting whiff and whiff of smoke from them because there's so many of them
| quote: | | not that i know of, but imo thats coz of lack of performed studies more than anything. think about older vehicles using leaded fuel. you gonna tell me all that lead in the air is good for us?? ;) |
Um no. In fact did you not just read me saying how I support a ban against those kind of cars? I'm agreeing with you. But just because no one has the guts to go after big car corporations doesn't mean it justifies not having smoking bans.
| quote: |
considering how much smoking one must do to develop smoking-related cancer i just dont see how serious passive smoking can be if its the random, walking-past-a-smoker-on-the-footpath* kind of situation. i have much more sympathy for those forced to work in pubs & clubs. |
I'm not sure about the stats either. But I'll let you know everytime I get sick from a sore-throat that I know is started from inhaling that crap. Besides, it's an unwanted physiological stimulus, and other forms of stimulus are protected under the law (i.e. noise pollution, noise bans) for the even less convincing reasons (i.e. "that music is too loud" as opposed to "those audio waves are giving me ear-related diseases that are killing me.") |
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