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Iran Joins Nuclear Club (pg. 9)
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| Verona^My |
| quote: | [b]
All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those towards whom it is directed will understand it. Therefore, the intellectual level of the propaganda must be lower, the larger the number of people who are to be influenced by it.
Adolph Hitler
Mein Kampf
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I'll chime in hear about propaganda on the emotional level. The intellectual level is mere peanuts compared to the emotional level.
Fanaticism is on the emotional level, not the intellectual level.
Effective propaganda directs the emotions of people. In dangerous cases, propaganda creates a fanaticism so intense, that people just act without thinking.
Think about how fanatical someone has to be, to hijack a plane with boxcutters and fly it into a giant tower. It's quite interesting, how emotions can totally hijack rational thought.
People dont wake up one day and go... "gee, I'm gonna fly a plane into a large building" The mindset is more interesting than that. It's about complex emotional states, not simple logic.
The columbine school shooting has a similar emotional makeup. Kids dont simply wake up and spontaneously think of blowing up the school. There are complex emotions involved. It's about more than cause and effect, it's about the person's whole environment, their upbringing from their nation and their parents.
Back to terrorists. Terrorists are made, they are created by their enviroment, the political tone of fanaticism and hatred. Their own anger is used by their leaders to motivate them to ACT on their anger. Thus a terrorist is born. As an example, Hitler did a marvelous job of using the German publics anger over the Versallies treaty.
Emotions can be the most beautiful things in the world, and also the most ugly. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Yet they allow Isreal and North Korea to have them because they are both peaceful nations. |
North Korea is probably lying about it, and ya, Israel shouldn't have nukes I agree.
Is everyone that suprised that Iran will be put on the spot for its nuclear program? Lets do a checklist shall we:
- Middle-Eastern - Check
- "Axis of Evil" - Check
- Oil - Check
- Next door to the largest troop deployment the USA currently has - Check
- Extremist leader - Check
- George Bush is involved - Check
- Iran is a more plausible military target than North Korea - Check
Iran sadly fits the bill for retarted invasion/big bombing/sanctions.
It's funny how all the Americanos are doing is gaining control over oil-rich countries... only to have China suck it out of the Americans themselves... I really cant understand the concern over the Middle-East anymore, seeing as how quite simply the Americans are becoming the biggest sell-outs ever to a Communist (soon to be) super power.
Ya Communists, remember? They were the enemy 20 years ago... Remember? Huh? Doncha? Middle-East what? :p:p |
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| deprivation |
Interesting how here in the U.S we're discussing invading Iran and occupying Iraq currently, but we're being invaded by Mexico in the south.
I saw a news flash on TV that Iran may consider sharing nuclear technology with other countries. Imagine if they did share and many more countries had nuclear weapons. It's almost as if Iran is giving the U.S and international community a bick you. |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by deprivation
Interesting how here in the U.S we're discussing invading Iran and occupying Iraq currently, but we're being invaded by Mexico in the south.
I saw a news flash on TV that Iran may consider sharing nuclear technology with other countries. Imagine if they did share and many more countries had nuclear weapons. It's almost as if Iran is giving the U.S and international community a bick you. |
THEY ARE GIVING THE US A BIG YOU. They are provoking an attack. They are practically gagging for it. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
THEY ARE GIVING THE US A BIG YOU. |
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD |
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| Lemonad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
THEY ARE GIVING THE US A BIG YOU. They are provoking an attack. They are practically gagging for it. |
That quite true you know, dunno about the gagging, probably Bush is getting a gagging of his own in the janitors closet by Rumsfeld but the bottom line is, this Iran government knows that the US government won't attack. The facilities of the nuclear plants are much deeper than 30 metres people have said and the Iranians have set up decoy facilities, they have also setup secret facilities to do the bigger stuff in areas people aren't concentrating, not saying Weapons.
We fall down to the NPT, Iran has permission to make nuclear fuel. Isreal has not signed it, and they have nukes but they haven't told the public about.. first sign of illegal acts. Thats why US will never attack, it has too much double standards happening. India didn't sign it and America got a contract ready to sell them uranium, another Illegal act. And why hasn't these issues been brought up, cause they are all wimps.
One other comment i heard that is true for these situations is that "If Nuclear Weapons are bad, then no country should have it"
The whole India backing with US against Iran to all of a sudden turn back and buy into a 22 billion dollar deal with Iran just shows how much the pestering of the Government is present, but some countries i guess are dead tired of them.
Also another reason why US can't attack Iran is because Iran has been invited by the SCO to join them as full members for backing from Russia and China. |
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| Dopey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
That quite true you know, dunno about the gagging, probably Bush is getting a gagging of his own in the janitors closet by Rumsfeld but the bottom line is, this Iran government knows that the US government won't attack. The facilities of the nuclear plants are much deeper than 30 metres people have said and the Iranians have set up decoy facilities, they have also setup secret facilities to do the bigger stuff in areas people aren't concentrating, not saying Weapons.
We fall down to the NPT, Iran has permission to make nuclear fuel. Isreal has not signed it, and they have nukes but they haven't told the public about.. first sign of illegal acts. Thats why US will never attack, it has too much double standards happening. India didn't sign it and America got a contract ready to sell them uranium, another Illegal act. And why hasn't these issues been brought up, cause they are all wimps.
One other comment i heard that is true for these situations is that "If Nuclear Weapons are bad, then no country should have it"
The whole India backing with US against Iran to all of a sudden turn back and buy into a 22 billion dollar deal with Iran just shows how much the pestering of the Government is present, but some countries i guess are dead tired of them.
Also another reason why US can't attack Iran is because Iran has been invited by the SCO to join them as full members for backing from Russia and China. |
30 meters is nothing, the new non-nuclear weapon the US is testing is designed to destroy bunkers that are shielded by concrete at depths of 60m.
Maybe the US will share this technology with Israel? Or maybe just drop it themselves.
China and Russia hate the US but have a much bigger stake in it than Iran.
Bottom line is, Iranian bunkers are at the most 20-25 meters underground according to every intelligence estimate. You do the math. |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
That quite true you know, dunno about the gagging, probably Bush is getting a gagging of his own in the janitors closet by Rumsfeld but the bottom line is, this Iran government knows that the US government won't attack. The facilities of the nuclear plants are much deeper than 30 metres people have said and the Iranians have set up decoy facilities, they have also setup secret facilities to do the bigger stuff in areas people aren't concentrating, not saying Weapons.
We fall down to the NPT, Iran has permission to make nuclear fuel. Isreal has not signed it, and they have nukes but they haven't told the public about.. first sign of illegal acts. Thats why US will never attack, it has too much double standards happening. India didn't sign it and America got a contract ready to sell them uranium, another Illegal act. And why hasn't these issues been brought up, cause they are all wimps.
One other comment i heard that is true for these situations is that "If Nuclear Weapons are bad, then no country should have it"
The whole India backing with US against Iran to all of a sudden turn back and buy into a 22 billion dollar deal with Iran just shows how much the pestering of the Government is present, but some countries i guess are dead tired of them.
Also another reason why US can't attack Iran is because Iran has been invited by the SCO to join them as full members for backing from Russia and China. |
Wrong on all account. First off it doesn't matter how deep the facilities are, i seriously doubt they've built 400 feet of reinforced concerete on the bunkers so as others have said, bunkbusteres and conventional weapons will blow them to bits. and no one attacks based on PICTURES, the sattelite images that they use are alot more complex than that. Russia is the only one in the SCO backing Iran just to oppose the west. They have the middle east just as much as anyone else who's plagued by terrorism. China is using them while they build up their nuclear reactor program. Israel hasn't told the public but they have also not denied it so you don't know if they have it, saying either/or would be seriously dumb on Israel's part. And for anyone to think that they should disclose that fact, they are seriously on the IQ level of a toilet seat.
Yes, nuclear weapons are bad, hence countries like the US and Russia have been dismantling them for years.
Let Iran keep pushing, they think that no one will support the US, but in fact the European countries are more worried about this than us. The US is worried about Irans up and coming oil market that will them in the bonghole. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Verona^My
I'll chime in hear about propaganda on the emotional level. The intellectual level is mere peanuts compared to the emotional level. |
Ahh OK I guess.
| quote: | | Fanaticism is on the emotional level, not the intellectual level. |
Yeah I guess so, if you include pro-war intellectual fanatics in that statement.
| quote: | | Effective propaganda directs the emotions of people. In dangerous cases, propaganda creates a fanaticism so intense, that people just act without thinking. |
Perfect. Which explains the cause for war without end in Iraq over non-existent WMDs. But who's counting.
| quote: | | Think about how fanatical someone has to be, to hijack a plane with boxcutters and fly it into a giant tower. It's quite interesting, how emotions can totally hijack rational thought. |
Disclaimer: No neocons were harmed in the hijacking of this airplane.
| quote: | | People dont wake up one day and go... "gee, I'm gonna fly a plane into a large building" The mindset is more interesting than that. It's about complex emotional states, not simple logic. |
Pavlov got his dog to salivate. What bell rang for you to respond?
| quote: | | The columbine school shooting has a similar emotional makeup. Kids dont simply wake up and spontaneously think of blowing up the school. There are complex emotions involved. It's about more than cause and effect, it's about the person's whole environment, their upbringing from their nation and their parents. |
People are diluting themselves if they think that they have their "environment" or "upbringing" under some sort of control.
| quote: | | Back to terrorists. Terrorists are made, they are created by their enviroment, the political tone of fanaticism and hatred. Their own anger is used by their leaders to motivate them to ACT on their anger. Thus a terrorist is born. |
Interconnecting intelligence agencies create the terrorist.
| quote: | | As an example, Hitler did a marvelous job of using the German publics anger over the Versallies treaty. |
I thought it was the Depression coupled with war reparations that helped Hitler and National Socialism ascend to power after the end of the Weimar Republic. After which the fire at the Reichstag and the Decree (invoking Article 48) thereafter did solidify Hitler's rise.
But who am I to argue your "facts". |
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| Lemonad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
Wrong on all account. First off it doesn't matter how deep the facilities are, i seriously doubt they've built 400 feet of reinforced concerete on the bunkers so as others have said, bunkbusteres and conventional weapons will blow them to bits. and no one attacks based on PICTURES, the sattelite images that they use are alot more complex than that. Russia is the only one in the SCO backing Iran just to oppose the west. They have the middle east just as much as anyone else who's plagued by terrorism. China is using them while they build up their nuclear reactor program. Israel hasn't told the public but they have also not denied it so you don't know if they have it, saying either/or would be seriously dumb on Israel's part. And for anyone to think that they should disclose that fact, they are seriously on the IQ level of a toilet seat.
Yes, nuclear weapons are bad, hence countries like the US and Russia have been dismantling them for years.
Let Iran keep pushing, they think that no one will support the US, but in fact the European countries are more worried about this than us. The US is worried about Irans up and coming oil market that will them in the bonghole. |
Everyone knows Israel has warheads, even people in favour of America say it and know it. There is no deny it on anyones part but it doesn't makes sense how this double standards bit is actually taking effect, corruption in favour of the American lies perhaps?
So you think if people thinking that Israel should disclose those facts have a low IQ, hmmm, i truly believe that people who DON'T want them to disclose them have a literal IQ of a turd in the toilet bowl. Who trust Israel with nukes? Who trust America with nukes? Who trust Iran with nukes? No one, but you can't single out a nation who has signed the treaty which enables them to make nuclear fuel to be under the spotlight where other nations who illegally have possession of nuclear warheads or uranium only to be supported by the over popular governments that support Israel (terrorism is a understatment for this country).
And it's funny also how you think Iran will be devastated by when oil runs out, America will literelly be bum raped if the oil runs out as much as you don't want to believe. Say if Oil runs out in less than 10 years which i doubt, with Americas consumption of 20 million barrels a day followed by 6 million from china, who do you think it will most likely affect? Oh and your IQ is based on this answer. You think by bringing in Electric cars and all that stuff people of America will change all of a sudden? What about the higher amount of poor people that won't be able to afford those stuff, what about billions of cars in the world that run on standard petrol, what will people do with them. The economy will collapse! And as much as you don't want to believe it, America will be raped first. Iran will be affected, yes but they got trillions of gas, geographical control over other countries exports and other stuff.
They can come with alternatives but i doub't people will adapt to them as quickly as they'd like.
Oh and everyone knows China is trying to monopolize the oils around the globe but one thing you must have missed is that China has NEVER hated Iran. Russia on the other hand is hit and miss. SCO was supported by China and Russia, not Russia alone.
Oh and also about the Holocaust denial, i don't think the President of Iran actually denies it, he just says to push some buttons in which he wants.
This whole thing is not about Nuclear warheads either, officials around the world have said that if Iran chose to make them, it will take 5 years or so, and yet Israel comes and says "NO" and claims they can make it this year so a attack happens. Also funny how Israel claims the Shahab can reach America just to cause panic in American for a reason to attack Iran, they also were the reason behind the invasion of Iraq... so Israel, innocent? Don't bet your bottom dollar, which will most likely go to oil anyways. |
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| Renegade |
In case there was any doubt:
| quote: | As expected, the International Atomic Energy Agency declared Friday that Iran has enriched uranium and is therefore in defiance of the United Nations Security Council.
The finding was outlined in a report prepared by IAEA chief Mohamed Elbaradei, who has been investigating the state of Iran's nuclear arms capability for the past three years.
"The existing gaps in knowledge continue to be a matter of concern," he writes in the report, a copy of which was obtained by the Associated Press. "Any progress in that regard requires full transparency and active co-operation by Iran."
Such co-operation has not been forthcoming from Iran, especially since hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected president in 2005.
Reacting to the report, U.S. President George W. Bush said he would continue to press for a diplomatic resolution to end growing global tension over Iran's nuclear ambitions. |
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/natio...lear060428.html |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: |
IAEA Report: Still No Proof Iran is Pursing Nukes
In news on Iran, the International Atomic Energy Agency has said in a new report that it has uncovered no proof that Iran is secretly pursuing a nuclear weapons program. But the agency accused Iran of stonewalling inspectors and defying UN Security Council demands to freeze its efforts to enrich uranium. Iran has said it would allow international inspectors from the IAEA to make unannounced checks but only if the issue did not go to the Security Council. Iran has refused to stop its uranium enrichment program which it maintains is for peaceful purposes. |
Source: Democracy Now
EDIT: Although they ought to, if they're interested in self preservation. |
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