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UFO's Don't Exist (pg. 3)
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by THE_Chris
but why would they come here? |
Reeses |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aquarian
The only way to do that would be to bend space. I think I'll leave that to the science fiction authors. ;)
Just look at how many factors came into our existance. The odds of a planet having these exact conditions for life to exist on are extremely slim. Assuming there is an infinite or quasi-infinite number of solar systems, then we have to assume that at least a small number of planets host life. That considered, you have to multiply those odds by some pretty large numbers, because life on those planets is probably nothing like what we have on earth. You need intelligent, social animals that are driven by a desire for exploration and achieve it by similar means as we do. Just look at how many thousands of species we have on earth - and how many can do this or even come close? Just one. Then, that species has to devellop some extremely powerful method of travel, to allow it to travel faster than convenient space allows, assuming that's even physically possible (which is a big leap of faith to begin with). The odds of that are even slimmer. Then, they have to actually find us - one planet lost in a flood of billions that don't host intelligent life. |
Why are you attributing Earth characteristics to clearly alien species? Sure they may be humanoid as in bipedal, but that doesn't mean they evolved the same way, nor do they neccessarily even need the same conditions on other planets for life to exist, even intelligent. I mean who knows if they even need oxygen, need water, need anything that we have. What if their bodies require something different, because they might very well have different kinds of lungs? or some type of organ all together?. This is what gets me about scientists or astrobiologists who are searching for life and wanting to find all these Earth-like planets. We just shouldn't assume alien life-forms, whether intelligent or not, need the same stuff we do to survive. There's plenty of life that exists deep in the oceans in caves, and they don't need sunlight or oxygen or anything that we commonly think of to live, so the same can apply to organisms on other planets.
To us these types of technology might not be possible, but we have a very limited knowledge of physics still, and it is quite possible these aliens that are visiting us are hundreds, or even thousands of years in advance. The laws of physics that we have might be completely different where they are from, or they have found a way to alter these laws, or they just don't apply. It's quite possible that they aren't even traveling long distances as we think, there's been plenty of cases of under-water UFOs, and UFOs reported and video-taped by astronauts flying in and around the Earth, so we can't just assume they are all traveling light years just to get here, or that our limited knowledge of our laws have to apply to their vast knowledge. We are still WAY behind technologically and scientifically. But if the aircraft that has been seen and video taped at Area 51 over the years is any idication, our military has their technology. I've been studying UFOs since I was in elementary school haha, so I've pretty much made up my mind, I don't believe in everything though but I am convinced that something is happening, and it's not just natural phenomenon (although some might be) or experimental aircraft, and some might be, but some of the really advanced technology that has been seen has to come from somewhere.
There has been an aircraft seen all over the world that defies our "laws of physics" known as "Aurora" which can pretty much hover, silently, and rapidly accelerate at a tremendous amount of speed. It's been video-tapped, spotted by police, military officers, civilians, everywhere from Belgium and England in the 1980s, Illinois, Montreal and Israel and other places in the 1990s and still spotted today. It is definitely not a hoax, neither is it technology that we are commonly thought to have developed, even if we have, why would the military fly it all over for many years? and how would they have gotten this technology that is obviously many, many years more advanced then any of our aircraft we have nowadays? |
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| Spirit5 |
This is a famous picture taken in Belgium in 1990. It was also spotted in 1989 in the same area, and in other places and other years, as I noted in my post... |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by jonSun
I actually think the odds of that are high since the universe never ends. |
The Universe does end though... a least according to most physicists these days. |
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
The Universe does end though... a least according to most physicists these days. |
and when they explain whats outside of the universe I'll believe them. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
and when they explain whats outside of the universe I'll believe them. |
The problem is that our experience is limited to space-time. Without space or time it i arguable that even words like "exist" or "is" and "outside" are inappropriate in questions like "What is/exists outside the universe?" since they presuppose space and time. If it is ever explained it will probably be done so, as all things in theoretical physics, in rather complex mathematical equations that less than 1% of the world will be able to understand, then translated to imperfect analogies.
Your argument on the other hand is analogous to me pointing at the walls and saying "clearly we are inside a room somewhere" and you replying "I won't believe that we're in a room until you tell me what's outside". |
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
Your argument on the other hand is analogous to me pointing at the walls and saying "clearly we are inside a room somewhere" and you replying "I won't believe that we're in a room until you tell me what's outside". |
I don't really get how that is the same as what i said. We know there is an outside world because it is there, we have seen it, we have experienced it, we KNOW its there. There is proof of an outside world.
They claim the universe is expanding. But obviously there must be somehting outside the universe to expand into. What? Its a bit of a flawed argument to say "well theres something outside of here, but we have no proof what, no ideas, no experience, but trust us theres something there". Its a bit like DJ Tiesto - Fly. Someone claims it exists, but doesn't have any credible evidence to substantiate any claims and so everyone knows its false. I'm willing to believe there is something outside if they can show me some sort of evidence that there is.
Now, this may be a case of difference of definitions, if they refer to the universe being just the solar systems/galaxies whatever (ie the physical matter) and the outside being space where there is nothing else, no galaxies, ok. But i would refer to that outside space as also being part of the universe. Maybe thats where we are diverging.
I'm not a physicist (obviously). |
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| nfekted |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
Its a bit like DJ Tiesto - Fly. Someone claims it exists, but doesn't have any credible evidence to substantiate any claims and so everyone knows its false.
I'm not a physicist (obviously). |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: |
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| NebulousQ |
| I think its hubris for us as fallable human beings to claim that the universe is infinite or finite as a "fact". What the heck do we know? |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by NebulousQ
I think its hubris for us as fallable human beings to claim that the universe is infinite or finite as a "fact". What the heck do we know? |
Don't question stephen hawking!
*slaps* |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
They claim the universe is expanding. But obviously there must be somehting outside the universe to expand into. |
Well it depends on your definition of "something". The edge of the universe is the edge of time and space, so outside of it there is no space and no time. So in a sense it is expanding into nothing - Not into empty space, but into no space at all. Remember outside of this universe the laws of physics don't necessarilyapply so the universe doesn't have to be expanding "into something" as you put it.
| quote: | | Now, this may be a case of difference of definitions, if they refer to the universe being just the solar systems/galaxies whatever (ie the physical matter) and the outside being space where there is nothing else, no galaxies, ok. But i would refer to that outside space as also being part of the universe. Maybe thats where we are diverging. |
Empty space is still space and the laws of physics (of this universe) still function there. Outside the universe there is no space and the laws of physics do not necessarily apply.
I'm not a physicist either but I believe a few people here are. Flyboy in particular if he's still around. If he reads teh thread I'm sure he'll enlighten us. |
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