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Brazil (question about Ethnic Unity)
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| Subey |
Hey,
I heard a story that Brazil was an excellent example of ethnic unity because all the various groups got along well. I was wondering if anyone who lived there could comment?
Steve |
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| Martinez |
There are stupid people in any part of the world, but I could say that here we indeed have a good relationship between races and religions.
I have various friends from many ethnies in here, many of them, like most of the brazilian people are mixed from many races. But I also have an european and an african friend.
My "race" is, (as far as I can go back through the genealogic tree, say 2 generetions :D), mixed from brazilian indian and italian. My wife from black and italian.
Anyway, i could say we have a good situation in here, mostly because the various mixes. But not a utopian situation. |
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| Subey |
Don't worry I wasn't expecting to find Utopia :D
Thanks for the information |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
I heard a story that Brazil was an excellent example of ethnic unity because all the various groups got along well. I was wondering if anyone who lived there could comment? |
I used to think like Martinez, given the fact that I'm myself mostly of Italo-Portuguese ancestry. However, the problem with ethnic groups in Brazil is a different one, although I believe we're in the right path.
First of all, for regional reasons, I'm going to drop "ethnic unity" and replace it by "racial unity", as that's what we hear the most (in fact, Martinez himself mentioned about races). The concept of race in Brazil has been strongly "biologised" (quoting wikipedia), and that's a key factor in order to understand what's going on.
There are no rigid racial classifications in Brazil: if your skin is not dark, and you don't have narrow eyes, you're white - no matter whether your ancestors are German, Italian or Arab (although you often hear people with fair skin saying that "they don't look Brazilian", because of the stereotypes).
That, along with the great miscigenation that took place throughout the centuries blurred the lines between races, and they've become social ones - usually, the darker the skin is, the poorer you might be considered to look (a result of colonial slavery). When slaves were freed, no one cared about social integration, and that's why such link exists unconsciously. Lately, this problem has drawn the attention of political leaders, and it's been tackled with measures such as affirmative action (like what happened in the US 30 years ago).
Due to the small number of native Brazilians, and the recent Asian immigration, there are a number of issues related to having narrow eyes (i.e. being "Japanese" and being "Brazilian" is often perceived as being excludent factors, as if they were not part of the society). I remember a Japanese-looking teacher of mine used to tell stories about how she was perceived as non-Brazilian, and how it used to hurt her (and other students of Japanese ancestry often agreed). In fact, studying Japanese language and dating someone of Japanese ancestry is often seen as anti-Brazilian things (although this problem wouldn't exist if I learnt Italian and dated someone of Italian ancestry). Same goes with native Brazilians.
Finally, religion wise, most of the country is Christian, and it's quite weird when you're not (believe me, I know :p). However, in spite of the majority, there's no social stigmas if you're a muslim, an atheist, a Buddhist or anything, with an exception of African religions: they're often seen as inferior, a view once again borrowed from colonial slavery.
So yeah, the problems are subtle, and that's what makes it even more difficult to tackle, but I'm not quite sure whether you could consider it an "ethnic unity" due to the aforementioned examples :) |
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| Subey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
So yeah, the problems are subtle, and that's what makes it even more difficult to tackle, but I'm not quite sure whether you could consider it an "ethnic unity" due to the aforementioned examples :) |
Darker skinned people ending up on the bottom again. You'd think the world would have come up with a new system to divide itself by now.
Could you clarify the attitude towards japanese? Are there economic barriers similar to those who are darker skinned? or are they just seen as being outsiders? And as outsiders are they perceived as being dangerous to Brazil? or benign etc? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Darker skinned people ending up on the bottom again. You'd think the world would have come up with a new system to divide itself by now. |
Actually, the similarities arose of the same process of slavery, and its end happened in a similar context, although we didn't have a cultural shock between the industrial North and the agricultural South (as in the US), but rather a shock between an industrial Europe and an agricultural Brazil (do correct me if there's any misconception about the American history - this is what we learn down here).
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Could you clarify the attitude towards japanese? Are there economic barriers similar to those who are darker skinned? or are they just seen as being outsiders? And as outsiders are they perceived as being dangerous to Brazil? or benign etc? |
As for the Japanese, you have to understand the context in which they came.
- 100 years ago, Japan was going through the Meiji Restauration and, along with those changes, Japan offered poor citizens the opportunity to try their luck in Brazil.
- Brazil had abolished slavery in 1888, so it needed labour force.
Many settlers came here in order to work in the agriculture, and some of them considered it something temporary (i.e. they'd come, make money and return). They formed colonies in rural areas, and the language barrier made contact more difficult.
Naturally, as time passed by, there was more interaction between the communities of Asian origin (mostly Japanese) and the rest of the country, but their presence was still seen as recent, even though most immigrants from European countries (other than Portugal) arrived here just a few decades earlier.
Speculations aside, the fact is that today most Japanese-Brazilians are considered as "different" from other races, in spite of the fact that 75% of them follow Christianism and have Portuguese as their first language. Although they're not really segregated (they're often seen as a model minority because of North American influence and Japan's rise as a major power), I've found myself in pretty odd situations whenever I was among people of Japanese origin, which seemed to show a xenophobic instinct from non-Japanese Brazilians. Economically, they're most often considered "white", by the way.
Back to dark skinned people, yes, there's an economical barrier: their income is usually lower (once again, a consequence of slavery and worse social conditions). There's some official data about it, and the government's been trying to promote racial equality (in the same way it tries to promote gender equality). Even if you watch Cidade de Deus, you can clearly see that the poor characters are dark skinned Brazilians, whereas the wealthy/middle-class ones have lighter skin.
However, they're not seen as outsiders. In fact, they're considered one of the pillars of our society (the European-African-Natives triad), and there's been a great cultural exchange, reason why some African traditions became common among all of us (such as wearing white in the nye, capoeira, and so on). |
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| Subey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
[*]100 years ago, Japan was going through the Meiji Restauration and, along with those changes, Japan offered poor citizens the opportunity to try their luck in Brazil.
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I have never heard of this. Is the japanese cultural presence directly related to your own interest in Japan?
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
However, they're not seen as outsiders. In fact, they're considered one of the pillars of our society (the European-African-Natives triad), and there's been a great cultural exchange, reason why some African traditions became common among all of us (such as wearing white in the nye, capoeira, and so on). |
Except their religion you stated earlier. But that is interesting, and certainly sounds like it would create an environment where it would be significantly easier to remove any economic barriers than it might be elsewhere. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
I have never heard of this. |
There's some series produced by NHK called Haru to Natsu that illustrates this - unfortunately, everything I've seen on this is exclusively both in Japanese and Portuguese.
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Is the japanese cultural presence directly related to your own interest in Japan? |
To an extent, yes. I do live in a city where Bon Odori is a somewhat popular event, after all.
I've always been a language/humanities geek, and the opportunities I had of getting in touch with the language and cuisine had some impact on me.
However, internet culture (and my love for random things :p) has certainly played an even more important role on my interest on modern Japan.
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Except their religion you stated earlier. But that is interesting, and certainly sounds like it would create an environment where it would be significantly easier to remove any economic barriers than it might be elsewhere. |
That's true - the government is doing the right thing, in my opinion, figthing racism openly. Probably, with economic growth, this situation will improve. |
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| Subey |
I'm curious how the Law of the Conservation of Information might apply to racism in Brazil (perhaps there is another term for it in the liguistic field)
i'll sum the law up as follows:
"Dave said he won't be joining us for Poker tonight because he has a date"
The Law basically states that we do not provide information when it fits a dominant template. In the example above everyone would assume that Dave's date was with a girl. If it was with a guy then you would add that information because it doesn't fit the template.
Unfortunately what this Law does do is it provides a clear seperation in the mind between the norm and the alternative. And reinforces the differences between things since things which are different have to be introduced into sentences where no words would explicitely exist otherwise.
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So I guess all that is a wordy way of asking the following question:
"In Brazil if you said 'i'm going to the movies with my friend Dave'" would people assume that Dave had a specific skin colour? |
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| Lira |
hmmm... I'd personally expect the person to be either tanned or white. But then again, that's the most common skin colour where I live. If Dave's skin was dark, it wouldn't be mentioned unless I asked who Dave was (just like a red-haired person is easier to stand out, compared to black or brown haired individuals). It would be extremely rude to give this information unless it was requested - just like height and weight.
In fact, people often assume skin colour based on hair colour (since it's hard to find dark skinned blondes :p). |
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| trance85 |
What's the average cost of living in Brazil?
(not to take over your thread or anything, just curious, have friends interested in living there, seems like a nice place too, maybe one day I wouldn't mind it either) |
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