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my PMC-37PRO vs PMC-55 and mixer mod'ing thread
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| sr126 |
i'm a proud owner of a pmc55, and my shiney new to me pmc37 arrived a couple days ago. i'm planning to mod both mixer to improve the overall sound quality.
here is my comparison of both mixer...
INPUT SECTION
depending on what your needs are, i would say both mixers are pretty even. if you have a pretty large set up, and sometimes need to patch in extra stuff, the pmc55 wins hands down. -4 channels, and the ability to select from 3 different sources per channel... so you have a total of 12 inputs vs the 8 on the pmc37. 8 inputs on the pmc37 is not shabby... but being able to connect a couple of mc909's, and an mpc to front pannel of the pmc55 w/out having to move the mixer to get to the rear pannel while dj'ing is just plain dope.
but for a bedroomer like my self, 8 inputs is more than enough... i only have two turntables, and dual deck cd player. so it's irrelavent to have all theses extra inputs.
the matrix inputs on the pmc37 is just insane. i love it. you can play the same song on two, or all three channels. you don't get the phasing effect at all. one catch: but the mixer behaves as if you are mixing two or three different songs, meaning to say if you have two or all three faders all the way open, w/signal coming thru, you will end up shoving the mixer into the red just like if you mixing two or three different songs.
the matrix thing takes a little getting used to, it's easy to get lost, and loose track of what input is assigned to what channel...
GAIN CONTROL
here, the pmc really knocks the stuffing out of the pmc37. one strange thing i noticed w/the pmc37 (compared to other mixers i have used) is that if the gain knob is all the way down (min) you don't hear anything, not even in the cue function. i remember when i first played w/the mixer the first day i got it... i took a minute or two to figure out why i wans't getting any sound. hehehe...
but the real reason w/the pmc55 kills the pmc37 is that gain is very wimpy compared the pmc55. if you set up your mixer to peak at 0db and set the master in a way that the gain/cue level to match the master, you will notice that you really have to crank the gain on the pmc37 to get it peak at zero. you spend a lot of time past the 12 o'clock position for vinyl, and way too much time past 3 o'clock for well recorded/mastered cd's. in some cases i had the gain just a hair before the max (where the knob stopped turning) to get the cd to peak at zero.
the pmc55 doesn't have this problem. i don't i ever had to get to 3 o'clock to get something to peak at 0db. w/the pmc55 you find that you spend 95% of you time between 9 and 1 o'clock.
EQ SECTION
i can't say which one is better. it's more of a prefernce thing.
the pmc55 has and equalizer (-24db/+6db), while the pmc37 has an isolator (-infinity cut/+6db)
they have different eq points, and sound completely different. they suited for different styles of mixing.
the pmc55 eq is very soft, natural, and discreet. this eq paired w/the rotary kit, makes blending insanely smooth.
the pmc37 isolator sounds more of an effect. the difference in eq points plays a big role here, but so does the fact that the pmc37 isolator has a narrow cue/or area of effect than the pmc55 eq.
you cut the hi's on the pmc37, and poof, no more hi hat... this sort of thing doesn't happen w/the pmc55. the hi hat just sound muffled or something. it's not great when you really want to screw w/a track. same w/the mids. cut the mids and the effect is a lot more pronounced w/the isolator than w/the pmc55.
cutting the bass sounds totally different w/the two mixers. cut the bass on the pmc55, and it sucks a chunk of the mids along with it. leaving chords and vocals (especially male vocals) sounding thin and gutless. some times this works to your advantage when you are fading in a track but are trying to keep mid bass and bass from intruding. if you cut the bass on the pmc37 and it sounds like there was no kick, or bass line there to begin with. this pretty cool, but it leaves the mid bass in... so you can still hear the kick, but it sounds more like a tick of a clock... you know what i mean. -on a sound system (on the headphones too) , cutting the bass on pmc55 for just one beat and brining it back sounds very dramatic. i have yet to use the pmc37 w/ speakers, but the pmc55 w/the bass cut leave the track sounding like someone unplugged the woofer... it's just nuts. the pmc37 sounds good in the sense that better at killing the low end, but since it leaves midbass in... it doesn't seem as dramatic, but it usually sounds better... what i'm trying to say is that cutting the bass on the pmc55 is felt a lot more than its heard, the the pmc37 it's heard better than it's felt.
strangely enough, i like the graphic eq on the pmc37. it's nice to be able to tweek the mids and hi's at the same time, such as boosting the mids, while cutting the hi's. plus the eq sliders feel pretty good. not too loose, and not overly stiff where it's difficult to make quick cuts, and back to 0db. great stuff.
w/the pmc55 the knobs are little to close together. it's hard to go nuts w/one eq and constantly scraping the your cuticles against the other knobs... it's almost pure hell to try to jiggy w/two knobs or more.
the filter section on pmc37 is pretty cool, but it has to used judiciously... just like the matrix input, if you apply too much filtering, then you'll shove the mixer into the red. it's a great way to ruin a digital recording if you don't have a comp/limiter between the mixer and recorder as a cushion if you end up getting careless w/the filter/eq'ing and input assigning...
i really enjoyed playing a song on channel, assinging the same song to another channel, and filtering, eq sweeping, and panning the be-jesus out of several tracks. i'm sure the xone, and pmc-cx can do more tricks, but thing can be a lot of fun. but for my style of mixing (long blends) it doesn't leave much time for me to mess w/the effects as much as i would like to. this thing would kill if i concentrated on mixing (working the channel sliders, and riding the pitch) while my neighbor tweeks the effects.
the eq switches on both mixers click when you switch them in and out, so they are not very effective to use a kill switch.
FADER SECTION
in terms of quality and feel, i think the pmc37 is much better than the pmc55. the pcv faders feel great. not too loose, not as much resistance as i would like, but i love the slick/smooth feeling of the pmc37 faders, almost as they are lubed.
i still have to put the input faders back on the pmc55 to really compare them... but the pmc55 does not feel as nice at the pmc37 x-fader.
one gripe i have w/the pmc37 faders is that they suck for long smooth blends like 99% of all the mixers out there... all the volume is packed into top 1/4 of the fader. i remember the pmc55 faders being much better in this regard.
i will discuss the cueing, aux section, and master sections later... i have to run...
but i will skip over the sound quality section since it's probably the most important for a lot of people.
SOUND QUALITY
the pmc37 sounds really good. the pmc55 was a noticable step up from the vmc-004 in terms of sound quality, more clarity, better definition, deeper more detailed bass, and a spacious deep 3d sound. but the pmc37 sounds completely different. it sounds processed and polished... like if it has a compressor built into it... it doesn't have the deep wide spacious sound of the pmc55. the character is completely different. the mids and hi's are brighter, and more detailed than the pmc55... it makes the pmc55 sound raw, almost to the point of making the mids and highs of the pmc55 sound really dark, unrefined, rolled off... almost makes the pmc55 sound ugly.
there is also a downside the sound of pmc37, compared to the pmc55 the pmc37 sounds absolutely gutless. the bass coming out of the pmc55 will eat the pmc37 for lunch. it's a night and day differnce between the two mixer. w/the pmc37 vinyl still sounds pretty good, great detail over all, but lacking some deep bass, and punch, but cd
s sound horrible... no bass what's so ever.
funny thing is... cd's sound great on the pmc55. it's a lot harder to tell the difference between mediums when played back to back w/the pmc55. it all sounds warm, w/great bass... and very deep bass too.
the way the pmc37 beats out the pmc55 in terms of more detailed and defined mids and highs, the pmc55 smashes the pmc37 w/it's bass. to me, the difference in bass response was insane. it's litterally a night and day difference. more noticable than the improved mids and highs of the pmc37... at least the bass on the pmc37 sounded a bit tighter and detailed, but what's the point if you can't FEEL it? :) :) :)
warm regards to all that made it this far....
i will be modding both mixers, so i will updating this thread from time to time w/some results. wish me luck.
now for some updating...
CUE SECTION
PMC55 rules in this department. you have one set of headphone controls (no split cue tho), a separate set of controls for your booth monitors. this enables you to hear one thing on the headphones, something else over the monitors, while the crowd is listening to something completely different. the pmc55 also pgm meters on ever channel, they come in handy, but they are not great. they force you to really use your ears to make sure your levels are ok, because of the way the meters work, it's kinda hard to tell where the song is peaking exactly... for example, you have the -5d solid, then the -3db is blinking solidly, then 0db is dimly flashing along w/the -3db. is it peaking at 3db? at 0db, or somewhere in between? it takes some getting used to. the metering one pmc37 is better because it's more definitive, therefore reducing guess work. if a song is peaking at 0db, then 0db will flash solidly. not a little, or kind of, like the pmc55 does. the pmc37 only has one cue meter on it. so if you have more than one song cued, the meter will read both signals mixing, and pushing your cue level up, so you have to stay on top of things more.
but the pmc37 is only marginally better than pcv275 in the cueing department, and way behind the pmc55. i think the only thing that separates (pmc37/pcv275) them is the fact that you can hear your self mix in the headphones w/the knob set to master on the pmc37, where the pmc27mk2/pmc270a/pcv275 you can not.
if you only mix w/monitors, then the extra features/flexiblity of the pmc55 won't come into play as much in a home envoirnment. if you mix in your headphones in the middle of night when bumping monitors is a no-no, dj'ing w/a pmc37 is pain in the rear to mix on. having to constantly switch the cue on each channel to read the meter, the stereo/split cue switch, turning the knob to select between cue and master, it's a lot of work compared to the pmc55.
one more thing... the headphone monitor is wimpy compared to the pmc55. when mixing on my headphones, i set the volume to just a hair below the first hash mark. this all the volume i need to work with. the get the same level w/the pmc37 i have to crank it to the 12 o'clock position. at home, it's not a big deal. at a loud party, you might run into trouble, especially if have headphones that are hard to drive, and forgot your headphone pre-amp at home.
AUX SECTION
pmc55 has one send, the pmc37 has two. neat thing about the pmc55 is that each channel also has it's own I/O section. so you can have 4 eqs hooked up (one on each channel) and still have the aux free so you can use an FX box.
the pmc37 is more practical, and realistic for me in terms of adding outboard FX or eq's... really, how many of us can go out, and buy 4 dope reals? or even 4 dcr1200s? then have to buy an FX unit? i can't, that's for sure.
both are equal in their ability to monitor the sends, and setting levels for sending and recieving.
MASTER SECTION
pmc55 in this department. the pmc55 is just a monster. even today, not very many mixers will give you 2 sets of xlr outs, 2 sets of unbalanced 1/4" outs. master one and two have separate controls, the pmc55 also has a limiter to reduce the signal coming out othe balanced outs, to protect your soundsystem from stupid people.
the pmc37 has one balanced master out 1/4", one unbalanced 1/4" labeled submaster, and a record out (rca).
obviously at home, the pmc37 is more than enough. for a large set up, the pmc55 is the way to go.
CONCLUSION
the pmc55 meets my personal needs, and mixing style better than the pmc37. i'm not trying to make make the pmc37 look bad w/this comparison. i'm just pointing out the differences between the two.
and some of the observations i have made will probably not matter at all, if your stepping up the pmc37 after getting bored w/your gemini, numark, stanton, or a vestax vmc. the pmc37 is still light years a head of anythese mixers in terms of sound quality, cueing, tone control, and build quality. the pmc37 is no joke. |
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| ZeJayMan |
Hey Dude,
I was going to buy the PMC-37 and this is really, really helpful.
So firstly, thank-you.
For reference, what type of sound system fo you have? Speakers/Amps etc?
| quote: | | there is also a downside the sound of pmc37, compared to the pmc55 the pmc37 sounds absolutely gutless. the bass... |
I wouldn't compromise on sound for my next mixer, I've got high quality Hi-Fi components and I need the sort of mixer to match them.
Bearing in mind that the PMC-37 costs £600 less than the 55 is there a huge difference?
Thanks in advance. Jordan |
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| spdandpwr |
| wow...a really great comparison of the two mixers...I was surprised at the huge sound difference but, in any event, I can't wait to see your modded pics. Also your sig is huge man; consider resizing so mods don't kill ya... |
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| sr126 |
zejayman, very welcome. i'm glad you're finding this stuff useful.
the A-B'ing was done on headphones. i used audio technica ath m40 fs.
for monitors i use krk v8's. i still haven't plugged the pmc37 to the v8's simply because i usually do all mixing n' stuff in the middle of night. i rarely play before 10pm.
i'm gonna test my dat. if it feels like working... i will record various samples, of me mixing vinyl into vinyl, vinyl into cd (or vice versa) and cd to cd. once w/the pmc55 then do the same thing w/the same music w/the pmc37.
i just have one problem, i don't have dsl anymore. i can burn a cd, w/flac files, and mp3 versions and try to upload from somewhere else. if not, i can send the cd to someone if they are willing to be kind enough to upload for us.
i think you will like the sound of both mixers for different reasons, depends on your preference. the pmc37 sounds sharper, and more detailed... mixing on the pmc37 gives me the feeling of listening to mastered mix cd. the pmc55 has a lot more depth, and warmth. but sadly it doesn't have the same level of detail or refinement that the pmc37 has.
spdanpwr, the difference suprised me too. the sound of the pmc37 is very different from the old beloved pmc's of the 90's. it's obvious on headphones, you don't even need a sound system to get an idea.
if we can get the stuff online, you will be able to hear it for yourself.
i don't think i'll be taking pics of my mods. i'm gonna messing w/the innards of the mixer... i'm gonna mess w/the opamps, and caps, maybe even the PSU, that's gonna be way down the line, who know when or if i will actually mess w/the power supply. i'm not planning to do anything visual to either mixer.
i may try to hack the pmc37 to be able to use a rotary kit, but that will require some more search on my part, because i don't the pmc27mk2 rotary kit will not work because the connection and number of wires are different.
RE: sig... i'm argentinian and italian, if someone has a problem w/that, then tough cookies for them! :)
plus, i don't know how to resize them... ddoooohhhhh! |
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| sr126 |
all the differences in sound i noted earlier was all in the headphones...
i just recorded a little something w/one mixer, and the same thing w/the other.
in the headphones, they still sound different. but the recordings pretty much sound the same. when listening to music over the headphones, the pmc55 sounds the same. what you hear in the headphones, sounds like the recording. so you know what you and the crowd are hearing the same thing character wise.
what you hear in the headphones on the pmc37 doesn't sound like the recording at all. actually, after listening to the recordings, the pmc37 and the pmc55 sound very similar. it's hard if not impossible to tell which is which.
i think people will find it comforting to find out/hear that the pmc37 really *IS* putting out some serious bass. it's super-sick just like the bass coming out of the pmc55.
i haven't hooked up the pmc37 to the v8's yet. so no word on how they sound compared to the pmc55 over the monitors.
i had to use my mini-disc recorder to make the dubs. neither of my dats feel like working. i used the unbalanced outs of each mixer to connect to the rca in's on the MD recorder. so it's not quite cd quality, but it's close enough. |
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| ZeJayMan |
| I Enjoy this thread immensely... |
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