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Avoiding cancellation
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| Gecko |
Hi there!
I often have the problem that when mixing two songs the bass drums align in such a way that their sound is cancelled (ie no deep bass). I've been playing with EQs but nothing seems to get me there.
I've heard it happen sometimes on live sets so maybe I'm just asking too much? Is there a way to run the mix (recorded to my pc) through some kind of dynamic processor which only takes care of the low frequencies and would that help? |
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| Scorchio |
sometimes when you beat match the 2 tracks it happens.
it only happens if the beats are very accurate so they cancel each other, its exactly if youl play the same track at a turntable you will hear a flight effect called flanger.
i think theres nothing you can do about it, just congragulate yourself for a perfect beatmatch
:) |
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| DJ-Energy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scorchio
sometimes when you beat match the 2 tracks it happens.
it only happens if the beats are very accurate so they cancel each other, its exactly if youl play the same track at a turntable you will hear a flight effect called flanger.
i think theres nothing you can do about it, just congragulate yourself for a perfect beatmatch
:) |
ya he's right.. it only happeneds when the bass is beatmatched perfectly.. most of the time its there 4 like 2-3 seconds.. then u can hear the bass going at it again.. |
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| DJ Teknique |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scorchio
just congragulate yourself for a perfect beatmatch
:) |
yep :toothless |
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| Gecko |
Yeah, it doesn't happen continously only in irregular intervals which makes you really notice when listening. I tried to realign the songs so that one is playing slightly too soon but then the beats sound out of order (duh!)
How do these guys doing pro mix CDs do it? I'm pretty sure they do some postprocessing but how?
Also: should I mix in a way, that when the first song drops to a break I kick in the other one with full beats and fade out the first before it's beat comes back on? Is this regular practice? Maybe you can tell me form experience cuz I don't whant to analyze (m)any sets right now (lazy me :rolleyes: ) |
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| DJ Teknique |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gecko
Also: should I mix in a way, that when the first song drops to a break I kick in the other one with full beats and fade out the first before it's beat comes back on? Is this regular practice? Maybe you can tell me form experience cuz I don't whant to analyze (m)any sets right now (lazy me :rolleyes: ) |
i personally don't like that, usually i start mixing when a song is coming from its fullest to a point where it begins to decline and end.....thats the best i can explain it, sorry |
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| spectra |
| Yea I agree with DJ Teknique, after the main bit the track usually goes into a decline, bring the track in there, I use Traktor so if the ending is short you can loop it until the other song is rdy then u can can let the loop go. |
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| Dj Thy |
Tweaking the EQ should definately help (otherwise the laws of accoustics would be flawed, very unlikely).
/mode lame physics teacher ON
The reason there is a cancellation of the bass, is because the phase of the sonic waves are off. If two waves (of same/almost same frequency) are completely IN phase, they'll add up, but if they're OFF phase, they'll start to cancel each other, with a maximum cancellation when both waves have a 180° phase difference. The effect is also maximum when both waves have almost the same amplitude. If one of the waves is considerably louder, the effect will be much lower, even inaudible.
/mode lame physics teacher OFF
So try decreasing the low freqs of the incoming tune considerably. Then at a certain point just try to switch the "position" of both lo freqs from both tunes in the mix, and you shouldn't have that cancellation effect.
Try experimenting. If you slowly increase the incoming tune's bass, while slowly decreasing the bass of the outgoing track, you'll hear that at some point the cancellation will be audible. It will remain audible in a certain "zone". After a considerable decrease of bass from the outgoing tune, you'll hear the effect disappear again. The trick is just to avoid, or go over this "cancelation zone" as fast as possible, so you won't notice there even was a phase cancellation. |
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| DJTJ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Thy
Tweaking the EQ should definately help (otherwise the laws of accoustics would be flawed, very unlikely).
/mode lame physics teacher ON
The reason there is a cancellation of the bass, is because the phase of the sonic waves are off. If two waves (of same/almost same frequency) are completely IN phase, they'll add up, but if they're OFF phase, they'll start to cancel each other, with a maximum cancellation when both waves have a 180° phase difference. The effect is also maximum when both waves have almost the same amplitude. If one of the waves is considerably louder, the effect will be much lower, even inaudible.
/mode lame physics teacher OFF
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Damn, you got there first! I was going to show off my Physics A level then! |
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