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Music Theory - Scales (pg. 4)
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| RichieV |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJSentinel
Well actually it depends. If I was spelling the scale UP my way was correct, but If I was spelling the scale DOWN, he would be correct. Atleast I was taught that way. Maybe it is different when you write it down, but I was taught you say/spell it the direction your spelling it in.
I don't even know why we are arguing about this. If someone asked me what the harmonic frequency in any given wave and I replied "well its seems to be the 5th or 659Hz of the base freqency 440Hz," but then you could say "no, there is no harmonic frequency. Actually there is a base frequency of 659Hz and a SUB-harmonic frequency which is the sub-4th or 440Hz."
I know that this is a music website, but maybe people haven't learned the same way. So unless I made a mistake like saying E natural is in the Cminor scale, maybe we should keep gramatics out of it. Thats at least my opinion. If you really think we should be very precise in how we say things, they maybe I should start tell people whenever they make a false referece to a term, I should correct them.
Jerry: Man I'm wanting to make this sound a bit more robust. How can I do it?
Mandy: Well if you applied an LFO to that oscillator then it would sound awesome!
Me: What the are you talking about? You can "apply" an LFO to an oscillator. You can "modulate" a "parameter" with the LFO's "output signal" or "output value."
Mandy: Well im sorry, I assumed you knew he was using V-Station!?
Me: Well we are not on a Novation forum, were on a music form :-P
Jerry: Your a douche bag.
Me: Wanna fight?
See what I mean?
No worries. I love you all :-D
Peace,
DJS |
i think there is a foundation all theory is based on and when you start to talk about theory and not follow the foundations , it will result in some confusion. You are right it is all semantics but they are things that will result in more confusion. |
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| DJSentinel |
You missed my point... you want to fight me?
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Yeah yeah you may be right but lets talk about ASOT 256! |
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| Channel Surfer |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJSentinel
Well actually it depends. If I was spelling the scale UP my way was correct, but If I was spelling the scale DOWN, he would be correct. Atleast I was taught that way. Maybe it is different when you write it down, but I was taught you say/spell it the direction your spelling it in.
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again, terribly wrong. don't take it personally, i don't know you (or care to) but accurate spelling of scales is essential not only notationally, but in terms of chord spelling as well.
your c minor triad with a D# would not hold water in any music situation wheather it be note reading, chord spelling, or music production.
if you were taught that way, it's not your fault, but for your own sake learn the alphebetical spelling of any and every scale and you'll only have more clarity and functionality. |
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| Channel Surfer |
a little further theory training:
western music has been broken down into the 12 tone system. that means you go 12 half steps and you're back on the pitch you started on, which is known as an octave.
an octave is an excample of an INTERVAL
and INTERVAL is defined as the DISTANCE from note X to note Y. ie a half step is a different distance and than say your Octave.
NOW every one of said 12 notes has an intervolic name
...below I have rewritten the names of all the notes and have also put their intervolic name
NOTE NAMES: A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab (A)
INTERVALS: R m2 M2 m3 M3 P4 #4/b5 P5 m6 M6 m7 M7 P8
m=minor
M=major
P=perfect
A to A# could be considerd a "half step" but the proper intervolic name for it would a "minor 2nd" like couting from 1 to 2 but not just any 2....minor 2....
A to B could be called "whole step" but more appropriatly it is a "major 2nd" and on and on.
hopefully this helps a little more. |
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| DJSentinel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Channel Surfer
again, terribly wrong. don't take it personally, i don't know you (or care to) but accurate spelling of scales is essential not only notationally, but in terms of chord spelling as well.
your c minor triad with a D# would not hold water in any music situation wheather it be note reading, chord spelling, or music production.
if you were taught that way, it's not your fault, but for your own sake learn the alphebetical spelling of any and every scale and you'll only have more clarity and functionality. |
Ok, may I ask you one thing... do D# and Eb sound the same?
Um... yeah :-|
At this point I don't give a damn about scale spellings. D# and Eb sound the same and they always will. At least I know enough music theory to compose and produce music.
EOD,
DJSentinel
Ps. I don't take anything personally, its all good. |
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| RichieV |
in Sentinels defence
most modern composers don't use keys or key signatures and generally don't follow the theory rules and often use enharmonic values for notes. Like using G instead of F##.
But for trance and simple music , i think it will be much more helpfull to learn the old fashion way.The people that stopped using key signatures also learned this way. It is just an easy straight forward way to learn it. |
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| Synchronicity |
To get philosophical on ya...
Theory is to be learned and then unlearned.
Theory can easily become it's own worst enemy because it can kill creativity if overdone.
I've learned some theory, but listening to lots of styles of music and learning as much as possible by ear is the route I'm taking now. |
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| DJSentinel |
I know I said EOD for me "end of discussion," but if I played a Cminor triad with a D#, how would that not "hold any water?"
If I hit the C key, the D# key, and the G key on my piano, what comes out?
I'm not attacking, just wondering how it doesn't hold water, unless you talking about it not holding "spelling" water.
Then I don't care ;)
EOD,
DJS |
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| Lindo |
| I think it's pointless to argue about how the C minor triad wouldn't "hold water" especially since the only thing you're doing is renaming Eb with D#. Okay so your C major triad is C, E, G. And then you move the second down a half step to get C, Eb, G, but is D# and Eb not the one in the same? It's just stupid to make an argument like that although you're more than correct that some music theorists would be odded out by that. |
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| Channel Surfer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lindo
I think it's pointless to argue about how the C minor triad wouldn't "hold water" especially since the only thing you're doing is renaming Eb with D#. Okay so your C major triad is C, E, G. And then you move the second down a half step to get C, Eb, G, but is D# and Eb not the one in the same? It's just stupid to make an argument like that although you're more than correct that some music theorists would be odded out by that. |
ouch Lindo, whoever heard of a three flat minor key with a sharp in it.
hand a score to an orchestra in c minor with a D# in it....
teach music everyday for a living then talk to me like i'm clueless. |
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| Channel Surfer |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJSentinel
I know I said EOD for me "end of discussion," but if I played a Cminor triad with a D#, how would that not "hold any water?"
If I hit the C key, the D# key, and the G key on my piano, what comes out?
I'm not attacking, just wondering how it doesn't hold water, unless you talking about it not holding "spelling" water.
Then I don't care ;)
EOD,
DJS |
right on man, let's try to take some of the attitude out of this, me and you, fair?
here's why:
when your making dance tracks playing some notes in and making them sound good without any background is not only valid but impressive. but if you're in the high end recording world and you're a producer you know what key a song is in.
from a more traditional standpoint all the classical music, jazz music, and even something like rock band tab books or even band geek books are made with the grand staff, and the same connective music theory that makes playing the music universally translatable.
so if you're in your studio and you play in some c minors, no one knows or cares if you read that note as D# or Eb. my arguement "holds no water" itself. and you would be correct, but alone.
however, from a compositional standpoint, you could not give sheet music to anyone of something you had written without proper understanding of the key you wrote it in. c minor is a three flat minor scale that goes C D Eb F G Ab Bb (C). the cleft would have three flat symbols written on the E A and B places. any session musician, composer, or arranger would be able to use what you gave them. |
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| skot_e |
it's funny watching this argument over right way and wrong way. TBH it doesn't really matter much as prob 90% of those that make electronic music think a key is what opens a door. So to go to the point of #/b (or should that be b/# :haha: ) is a bit extreme. It may be correct, but it prob doesn't matter to most. As long as you play the right buttons - oops - keys.
To Ch. Sfr: how long have you been teaching? |
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