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Breaking news - Probe finds the Haditha massacre was deliberate
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| HardTranceProd |
| Just saw the news ticker on MSNBC. |
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| Temperate |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Just saw the news ticker on MSNBC. |
They need to be locked away forever. :whip: |
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| metalgearsolid |
| So, why don't you post the artcile that says that? |
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| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
So, why don't you post the artcile that says that? |
+1. Link please. |
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| Shakka |
Innocent until proven guilty? Sounds like the Marines aren't taking this one laying down.
| quote: | Marine Names Murtha in Defamation Suit
Congressman Discussed Killings Involving Serviceman's Squad in Haditha, Iraq
By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; A05
A Marine Corps staff sergeant who led the squad accused of killing two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, will file a lawsuit today in federal court in Washington claiming that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) defamed him when the congressman made public comments about the incident earlier this year.
Attorneys for Frank D. Wuterich, 26, argue in court papers that Murtha tarnished the Marine's reputation by telling news organizations in May that the Marine unit cracked after a roadside bomb killed one of its members and that the troops "killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Murtha also said repeatedly that the incident was covered up.
Murtha argued that the questionable deaths of 24 civilians were indicative of the difficulties and overpowering stress that U.S. troops are facing. The congressman, a former Marine, has been a leading advocate for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.
In the court filing, obtained by The Washington Post, the lawyers say that Murtha made the comments after being briefed by Defense Department officials who "deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information." Neal A. Puckett and Mark S. Zaid, suing for libel and invasion of privacy, also wrote that Murtha made the comments outside of his official scope as a congressman.
Telephone calls yesterday to Murtha's office in Washington were referred to his district office in Pennsylvania, and calls there were not returned. A Marine Corps spokesman declined to comment yesterday on the Haditha investigation or the lawsuit.
The suit could have interesting legal ramifications because Wuterich and the other members of his squad have not been charged and have not received any official investigative documentation about the Nov. 19 incident. A Naval Criminal Investigative Service investigation is expected to determine possible charges this summer, said officials familiar with the case.
Zaid said the filing is designed partly to force Murtha to disclose what information he received from the Defense Department and the Marine Corps commandant to form his opinion, essentially trying to speed up the discovery process in a potential criminal trial.
"This case is not about money; it's about clearing Frank Wuterich's name, and part of that is to identify where these leaks are coming from," Zaid said in an interview. "Congressman Murtha has created this atmosphere that has already concluded guilt. He's created this environment that really smells, and he's the only one who has done that."
The move by Wuterich is rare, as statements made by members of Congress generally are protected under the "speech or debate" clause in Article I, Section 6, of the Constitution. But legal experts said the clause grants immunity only for what lawmakers say in legislative proceedings and does not apply to news releases, speeches and other public comments.
Rodney A. Smolla, dean of the University of Richmond Law School and a libel expert, said yesterday that Wuterich would have the burden of proving that he is innocent and that Murtha's statements were false, but he added that the quotations appear to be actionable in court. He said the suit shows that Wuterich probably thinks he did nothing wrong.
"Part of the subtext of this is it's a showing of confidence and a preemptive strike of sorts," Smolla said. "The congressman's statement does not sound as if it is merely hyperbole or opinion or name-calling. Instead, it conveys the idea that the Marines violated professional standards and perhaps the law."
Wuterich, through his attorneys, has maintained his innocence and has said that the Marines killed two dozen people that day because they were engaged in a firefight with suspected insurgents. He told his lawyers that he and other Marines used grenades and rifles to clear two houses they thought were hostile. Another Marine's detailed account of the incident, obtained by The Post, corroborates Wuterich's version.
Donald Ritchie, associate historian in the Senate Historical Office, said that such defamation suits happen from time to time but that they tend not to go anywhere because of the constitutional protections members have. He said the most famous case was in 1979, when the Supreme Court ruled that Sen. William Proxmire (D-Wis.) was not protected when he made defamatory statements to constituents in a newsletter.
"The Supreme Court has suggested that speech and debate has limits to it, and that makes people vulnerable in certain areas," Ritchie said.
Researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Innocent until proven guilty? Sounds like the Marines aren't taking this one laying down. |
What part of that ing story isn't true here, according to that report that ironically came out the same day this soldier filed his frivolous bull lawsuit? The evidence is stacked as high as the sky against these guys. They did crack, they did seek revenge, and they took out innocent lives as a consequence:
| quote: | Haditha report could implicate Marines
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer2 hours, 14 minutes ago
Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.
Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.
The decision on whether to press criminal charges ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines' parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.
Investigators conducted a wide range of interviews but did not obtain permission to exhume the bodies of the 24 who were killed, one official said.
The case is one of several involving alleged unjustified killings of Iraqi civilians that have emerged this year, damaging the military's reputation for humane treatment of civilians and triggering calls by some Iraqi leaders to end the arrangement under which U.S. troops are immune from prosecution by Iraqi authorities.
The Marines initially reported after the Nov. 19, 2005 killings at Haditha that 15 Iraqi civilians had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.
A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.
A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines' chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.
Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), D-Pa., a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed "in cold blood."
Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the Marines under investigation, argued in a lawsuit filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. The suit maintains that Pentagon officials "who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information" and that the congressman subsequently "has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory" to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.
Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, seven Marines and one Navy corpsman have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802...investigation_6 |
Murtha came forward with evidence coming DIRECTLY from the Dept. of Defense. That lawsuit's as good as dead. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
What part of that ing story isn't true here, according to that report that ironically came out the same day this soldier filed his frivolous bull lawsuit? The evidence is stacked as high as the sky against these guys. They did crack, they did seek revenge, and they took out innocent lives as a consequence: |
Oh come on. Quit being such a bad 'Merican. The court of public opinion is not the decider here. We keep hearing of all of this purported damning evidence, but so far it's all sizzle and no steak. Where are the juicy details and specifics? All we know is that women and children were unfortunately killed, but we don't know what sort of mitigating circumstances there might've been or what may have caused soldiers to act in such a way(at least that's how I understand it).
You're so quick to condemn. It's almost like you just want your military to be guilty of the worst possible acts imaginable. And for what? So George Bush looks bad? Sorry, but that has become priority #1 for most libs and Dems these days. Anything that makes the Administration look bad is more important than anything else. Except of course gay marriage and embryonic stem-cell research. Who gives a about national security, right? That is why Dems and good ole' self-hating libs will continue to be painted as weak on national security because for all they claim to care, at the end of the day they don't really seem to give a .
Maybe the soldiers acted wrongly, maybe they didn't. Maybe if we had all of the information around what happened we could make a more informed conclusion, though the ultimate decision still lies in the hands of the courts. Murtha is just spouting out Murtha. I haven't met a single military person (active or retired) that thinks he is worth two greasy s on a hot tin roof.
| quote: | | Murtha came forward with evidence coming DIRECTLY from the Dept. of Defense. That lawsuit's as good as dead. |
Didn't you make similar predictions about Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby? |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
You're so quick to condemn. It's almost like you just want your military to be guilty of the worst possible acts imaginable. And for what? So George Bush looks bad? Sorry, but that has become priority #1 for most libs and Dems these days. |
Let's make a little comparison on how many Dems. in Congress have gone to war versus our cute little chickenhawk Republicans, shall we? Are you actually going to try to go down that road about how "Dems. and those antiChrist libruls hate our troops and hate America" bull? I really thought you were above that by now. Shall we discuss body armour? Troop counts? Vehicle armour? Any ing post-war planning of any sort?
Because I'm game for those topics and how this Administration and his GOP-lapdog Congress has done oh so much for our soldiers in that regard, how well they've done so well putting them in harm's way on false pretenses in the first place for this war, if you really wish to trot down that road.
There's very little that Dems. and us libruls have to do to make Dubya look bad - the douchebag does that all by himself. We merely point out the idiocy that's taking our country off the cliff.
And this is not a matter of being quick to condemn. Of course I will hold final conclusions until their day in court, as anyone should. But given the evidence thus far, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE EVIDENCE PURPORTED BY MURTHA AND OTHERS IS COMING FROM THE DAMN PENTAGON ITSELF, who the hell wouldn't come to the same conclusions given the source of information itself? It's really not that crazy.
| quote: | | Anything that makes the Administration look bad is more important than anything else. Except of course gay marriage and embryonic stem-cell research. Who gives a about national security, right? That is why Dems and good ole' self-hating libs will continue to be painted as weak on national security because for all they claim to care, at the end of the day they don't really seem to give a . |
Oh I think we can run down a myriad of sources that demonstrate the lack of effort by this Administration owning a nutsack of it's own and doing what's right for National Security. Shall we track that down again?
| quote: | | Murtha is just spouting out Murtha. |
Uhh, no - Murtha is spouting what the Dept. of Defense is spouting (albeit a bit more quietly).
| quote: | | I haven't met a single military person (active or retired) that thinks he is worth two greasy s on a hot tin roof. |
Yeah, funny how he was your guys' favorite warhawk Democrat until he realized the futility and absolute idiocy of what your President and chickenhawk twits are doing in Iraq along with the rest of the Middle East. Boy we sure are a lot more safer around the world, aren't we? Those dang terrorists are really all stomped out and are on the run, aren't they? Iraq is just ing going swimmingly as always, ain't it? And that bin Laden character is just as hapless as ever, being caught and jailed somewhere in our custody, right?
Am I talking to Q or Shakka here? Jesus.
| quote: | | Didn't you make similar predictions about Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby? |
On Karl, yes. Dick, not sure what case you're referring to. Scooter - damn straight. Are you telling me there's so much compelling counterevidence that Scooter wasn't lying through his ing teeth that we know of so far? And are you actually willing to go out on a limb and predict he'll walk?
I'll take that bet with a 6 pack of your favorite beer, bub! |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Just saw the news ticker on MSNBC. |
This is an AP story on Fox News from when I googled "Haditha massacre was deliberate":
| quote: | Nearly Complete Haditha Probe Supports Accusations Against Marines
Wednesday, August 02, 2006
WASHINGTON — Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.
Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.
The decision on whether to press criminal charges ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines' parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.
Click here to visit FOXNews.com's Iraq center.
Investigators conducted a wide range of interviews but did not obtain permission to exhume the bodies of the 24 who were killed, one official said.
The case is one of several involving alleged unjustified killings of Iraqi civilians that have emerged this year, damaging the military's reputation for humane treatment of civilians and triggering calls by some Iraqi leaders to end the arrangement under which U.S. troops are immune from prosecution by Iraqi authorities.
The Marines initially reported after the Nov. 19, 2005 killings at Haditha that 15 Iraqi civilians had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.
A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.
A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines' chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.
Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed "in cold blood." (Full story)
Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the Marines under investigation, argued in a lawsuit filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. The suit maintains that Pentagon officials "who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information" and that the congressman subsequently "has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory" to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.
Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, seven Marines and one Navy corpsman have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya. |
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