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George Galloway: "The Violence Will Go On" Video
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| iLLnaDa |
I just got this link from my cousin who used to live in Lebanon, its worth a watch if you are following the 'crisis in the Middle East' and perhaps a few TA's may want to get into a discussion.
George Galloway has spoken out in support of Lebanon, saying that Hezbollah is justified in attacking Israel. The Respected MP also Lambasted media coverage of the war and said the UN resolution means nothing.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/v..._060806,00.html |
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| rabbitjoker |
It is hard to believe someone as belligerent as that is credible.
Mr. Galloway's exasperated response and antagonism of the host is absurd. |
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| Abercrombie |
| He's got quite a history of crazy remarks, not surprising from Galloway. I hope the conflict is over, and Lebanon is returned to the Lebanese people and the Lebanese army, and the end of Hezbollah's military. |
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| Goashem |
| quite the nutcase to be honest. |
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| pure_raw_beats |
| You guys are so quick to refute him based on his tone, but make no effort to refute the statements made. |
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| solgrabber |
| quote: | | You guys are so quick to refute him based on his tone, but make no effort to refute the statements made. |
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| iLLnaDa |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
It is hard to believe someone as belligerent as that is credible.
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my thoughts exactly RJ! |
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| Goashem |
First of all Mr. Galloway is upset about the way he is introduced, probably because it creates a hostile view of him. However he then goes and introduces the current conflict as "israel has been invading and occupying Lebanon...", creating the same hostile image of Israel. He did not bother to give reason for this invasion back in 1982 or 1978. The fact that terrorists were harboured in Lebanon for years who have been attacking Israel, and the fact that those terrorists killed an Israeli politician are omitted to serve his own bias.
"It is Israel that is invading Lebanon", what about the Hezbollah militants invading Israel and kidnapping those soldiers that sparked the whole war?
"Thousand of Lebanese prisoners are being kidnapped by Israel"... no mention of the fact that they are militants who are firing rockets (rockets that been flying into Kiryat Shmona and other northern cities long before this conflict started).
"But they are not a terrorist organization" - oh yeah clearly, they are a resistance group brought about by the need to fight Israeli occupation, yes? Then why was it sprung in Iran? Hezbollah started when Iran sent its Pasdaran revolutionary guards who started recruiting training and recruiting in Lebanon. Hezbollahs ideology revolves around the destruction of Israel by force. Their operations include: kidnapping and torturing of militant and civilian personnel including journalists. Bombing of the US embassy in Beirut. Suicide bombing that killed 241 marines. Bombing of Jewish centres and embassies around the world. Constant shelling of Israeli towns and finally, they believed to be helping in the planning of other terrorists group suicide bombings in Israel.
So now, despite everything I said above, lets assume Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, and they are part of the Lebanese government. Israel is in fact fighting Lebanon then, no? and all those targets they have bombed are all legitimate as "Lebanon" has been using those areas to shell Israel.
"You are wrong to say that in most peoples eyes Hezbollah is a terrorist organization in most peoples eyes Israel is a terrorist state" - is this guy for real? He just used the same type of generalization that he got pissed off about in the first place! Hypocrite.
Oh just a FYI - Hezbollah is recognized as a terrorist organization by Canada. The following countries also recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist organization: England, USA, Australia and the Netherlands. The EU position on Hezbollah is flip flopped. They do not recognize it as a terror organization but do recognize that there is clear evidence of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. Its probably bad for business :rolleyes:
"No justice no peace" - great quote, what kind of justice is he talking about though? The complete withdrawal by Israel from the land they been occupying since 1967, the land that they won after the Arab world ganged up in order to annihilate Israel. The release of all prisoners, the prisoners who has planned and attempted attacks against Israel. And of course he talks about how Lebanon has far more casualties than Israel, so lastly justice will come only after more Israelis will die. In the middle east justice is synonymous with revenge (on both sides). |
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| Abercrombie |
| excellent refute. |
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| pure_raw_beats |
| quote: | Originally posted by Goashem
First of all Mr. Galloway is upset about the way he is introduced, probably because it creates a hostile view of him. However he then goes and introduces the current conflict as "israel has been invading and occupying Lebanon...", creating the same hostile image of Israel. |
His introduction was full of rhetorical statements making plenty of assumptions about him. Using the same catch phrases that were used since the start of the conflict to villify Iran. Where as the invasion and occupation of Lebanon is not an assumption. How is a ground incusion, taking control of villages, and using brute force not an invasion and occupation?
| quote: | | He did not bother to give reason for this invasion back in 1982 or 1978. The fact that terrorists were harboured in Lebanon for years who have been attacking Israel, and the fact that those terrorists killed an Israeli politician are omitted to serve his own bias. |
Yeah, Israel's purported reason of the 1982 invasion was to go after the PLO. However, the Palestinian refugee crisis, which strips thousands of Palestinians their right to live in their nation of citizenship is a major part of the reason the PLO had so much strength in those times. You can compare it to Israel dousing a house in gasoline, and then blaming the guy who lit the match.
| quote: | | "It is Israel that is invading Lebanon", what about the Hezbollah militants invading Israel and kidnapping those soldiers that sparked the whole war? |
The blue line is a many kilometer wide buffer zone seperating Israel and Lebanon. The kidnappings occured meters away from the Lebanese end of the buffer. There is evidence that Israeli forces often times go right up to this fence, often instigating and provoking a response out of the Lebanese.
| quote: | | "Thousand of Lebanese prisoners are being kidnapped by Israel"... no mention of the fact that they are militants who are firing rockets (rockets that been flying into Kiryat Shmona and other northern cities long before this conflict started). |
When many of these prisoners, actually let me say most of these prisoners are held without fair trial, both Palestinian and Lebanese, it causes alot of outrage. The media is so quick to label all of these prisoners as militants when in reality, many of them are not. But hey, if the USA does this in guantanamo bay, does that make it ok for Israel to do it?
| quote: | | "But they are not a terrorist organization" - oh yeah clearly, they are a resistance group brought about by the need to fight Israeli occupation, yes? Then why was it sprung in Iran? Hezbollah started when Iran sent its Pasdaran revolutionary guards who started recruiting training and recruiting in Lebanon. |
You're trying to say that Hezbollah's birth was spawned solely by Iran. This is incorrect. Hezbollah was born through the original Israeli invasion of 1982 and accepted spiritual, financial, and military guidance from Iran. Hezbollah however is fighting their own war, not Iran's war. Just like Israel right now is fighting their own, and not America's war. There are still many points of dispute that have never been attempted to be resolved through diplomatic means that put the Lebanese at a great disadvantage. The case of the Shebaa farms, the Landmine maps, and the many prisoners without fair trial. Situations like these would be deemed unacceptable if they put Israel at a disadvantage, however when the poorer arab state has to deal with this, they get ignored. When all dialogue is exhausted (and yes, the Lebanese government has requested time and again the landmine maps from the Israeli government) you can't really expect a group like hezbollah to sit and get pushed over.
| quote: | | Hezbollahs ideology revolves around the destruction of Israel by force. Their operations include: kidnapping and torturing of militant and civilian personnel including journalists. Bombing of the US embassy in Beirut. Suicide bombing that killed 241 marines. Bombing of Jewish centres and embassies around the world. Constant shelling of Israeli towns and finally, they believed to be helping in the planning of other terrorists group suicide bombings in Israel. |
Hezbollah does have many extreme views, many that I flat out do not agree with. However, those american journalists thought to be CIA held captive by Hezbollah claim they were treated well, as well as the Israeli business man who was exchanged for prisoners in the past. None of them claimed they were tortured. Now, the kidnapping is prevalent because of it's success in the past for their goals. They'd kidnap, then exchange for prisoners, kidnap again, and exchange. It had worked time and time again. Israel let them put their hand in the cookie jar then slammed the lid shut on their hands. Also, Hezbollah doesn't aide hamas in any way in terms of suicide bombings in Israel.
| quote: | | So now, despite everything I said above, lets assume Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, and they are part of the Lebanese government. Israel is in fact fighting Lebanon then, no? and all those targets they have bombed are all legitimate as "Lebanon" has been using those areas to shell Israel. |
When a democracy is born, the government is represented by the people support of any party/person. Hezbollah has support due to the great deal of social services they provide to poorer areas of Lebanon. Schools, hospitals, food programs, etc. To many, Hezbollah is a lifeline. Sucks for the west that democracy in this region isn't going as smoothly as planned, but unlike Palestine, the government with the majority is not the "enemy" and therefore the entire nation is not responsible for the few seated members in parliament who hold opposing views to the power holders.
| quote: | | "You are wrong to say that in most peoples eyes Hezbollah is a terrorist organization in most peoples eyes Israel is a terrorist state" - is this guy for real? He just used the same type of generalization that he got pissed off about in the first place! Hypocrite. |
To an extent, he makes a point about Israel being a terrorist state. I urge you to watch the first 15 minutes of this movie and tell me Israel is not terrorizing the lives of Palestinians.
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"No justice no peace" - great quote, what kind of justice is he talking about though? The complete withdrawal by Israel from the land they been occupying since 1967, the land that they won after the Arab world ganged up in order to annihilate Israel. The release of all prisoners, the prisoners who has planned and attempted attacks against Israel. And of course he talks about how Lebanon has far more casualties than Israel, so lastly justice will come only after more Israelis will die. In the middle east justice is synonymous with revenge (on both sides). |
In 1967, after the war, a UN resolution was passed demanding Israel withdraw from all the occupied territories and go to pre war borders. Israel has yet to comply. They're so quick to shoot down a long standing UN resolution yet are so quick to criticize those who are unable to implement any other UN resolutions that would benefit them. The hipocracy of Israel's policy astonishes me. Now about the casualty figures. I find it rather interesting that leaflets dropped, after roads and bridges are bombed, is ample warning and provides justification to Israel for Lebanese casualties. However, Nasrallah going on TV and flat out warning northern israel and beyond of rocket attacks not being weighted the same. Where as one side is "minimizing civilian casualties through leaflet warnings" yet the other is "indiscriminantly targeting civilians". Fact of the matter is, this is a propoganda war, one that Israel, with their strong cencorship, lobbygroups and public relations army holds the advantage too. Israel is not the squeeky clean face of democracy and freedom that they want the world to believe. |
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| 7-4-7 |
| most of responses about Galloway here dont shock me, I think he is brilliant, crass and powerful...thanks for the link. |
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| Goashem |
I think I can address your entire post as a whole instead of point by point (I think that way itll get my message accross more clearly).
I'm not making a case for Israel, I do recognize their faults. My problem with Mr. Galloway is that he seems to believe that theres only one to blame for the contineous violence in the region and that it is Israel. If you believe so we have nothing further to discuss. There are so many factors that contribute to this conflict to consider. Disregarding Israeli suffering and the atrocities that has been done to them is just as wrong as disregarid the suffering of the palestinian/lebanese people. Both the Arab and Jewish populations have suffered needlessly and each passing day they become more and more like each other. Movements like Hezbollah is not the answer and neither are indiscriminate bombings. Pointing fingers at one end will solve nothing.
Some points that I would still like to address directly:
| quote: | | However, those american journalists thought to be CIA held captive by Hezbollah claim they were treated well, as well as the Israeli business man who was exchanged for prisoners in the past. None of them claimed they were tortured |
They claimed that "at times" they were treated kindly. at other times however they were mentally tortured when guns ready to shoot were placed against their heads. and the more serious tortures occured of course with military targets. William R. Higgins was tortured to death by Hezbollah.
| quote: | | You're trying to say that Hezbollah's birth was spawned solely by Iran. |
I'm saying the idea of the movement came out of Iran. Iranian personnel started it and used their "guidance" to fuel the "resistence". |
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