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Recording hardware synth for mixdown
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| gr8ape |
| When I record sound from my virus, there are a few miliseconds of delay, so the synths are actually a few miliseconds late, do you think that can change alot in a track or its unnoticable? |
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| mysticalninja |
| Are you recording the sound to an audio track? Try doing an real-time export, I think that gets rid of the delay for you? |
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| RivalMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by gr8ape
When I record sound from my virus, there are a few miliseconds of delay, so the synths are actually a few miliseconds late, do you think that can change alot in a track or its unnoticable? |
Most likely this is due to latency in the midi-signals transmitted from your sequencer to the hardware synth. I have had lots of problems like this too when recording my synths.
To answer your questions: YES - milli seconds DO matter. Not saying that it's always a bad thing, but it does change the sound and groove of a track, if i.e. the bass-track is a little late - even though it might not be more than just a few ms (or even less).
Obviously the problem is not big when recording sounds with a slow attack (i.e. pads etc.)
So what to do then? I worked around the problem by finding the specific latency when recording a track. I did this by putting a sample of a kick drum on first beat and also having a midi track playing my hardware synth using a sound with fast attack (i.e. a bass or even a kick). I recorded this and zoomed in on the two audio files (the original kick drum and the recorded sound). I then tried to find out the specific delay.
After finding this out it is just a matter of compensating your hardware-midi tracks with a predelay of a negative amount that matches the delay. This way your recorded tracks will be synchronised.
Fortunately the latest driver update for my audio device solved the midi-latency problems I was having and now I no longer have to do this manuel latency compensation.
Another thing is that if you're using Cubase you could be having other issues as well. It's not the first time that someone reported audio/midi-sync problems in Cubase ;-) Latest versions should however have solved this issue.
A final word: You will NEVER have sample accurate audiotracks when recording form external hardware. After a lot of producers are getting used to work with software synths etc. most come to expect sample accuracy between tracks.
In the "good old days" with hardware synths this was not the case. The reason for this is the very midi-protocol and the way it has been implemented. Some sequencers are more precise than other, some audio devices are more precise than other, some hardware synths are more precise etc. but you will NEVER see any setup that has sample accuracy syncronisation between internal and external tracks.
- And that's what makes it charming, I might add ;-)
Regards |
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| RivalMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by RivalMan
A final word: You will NEVER have sample accurate audiotracks when recording form external hardware. After a lot of producers are getting used to work with software synths etc. most come to expect sample accuracy between tracks.
In the "good old days" with hardware synths this was not the case. The reason for this is the very midi-protocol and the way it has been implemented. Some sequencers are more precise than other, some audio devices are more precise than other, some hardware synths are more precise etc. but you will NEVER see any setup that has sample accuracy syncronisation between internal and external tracks.
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Whow, I was a little bit too fast there. To clarify: You can indeed have sample accuracy when recording audiotracks, i.e. if your recording an accoustic instrument or vocals (allthough you might have to calibrate your equipment with a loop back test to get the accuracy). My point was that you cannot, however, have accuracy when recording from a device that has been triggered by midi - due to "midi"-latency and drifting. The recording itself is actually okay, it was the "playing" that "drifted" during the recording.
Regards |
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| thecYrus |
| which sequencer do you use? cubase sx 3.1 can compensate external synth latency very well.. |
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| Low Profile |
Your soundcard has some latency, it's not the midi that has latency (midi is VERY quick), but from the moment the sound enters your soundcard and until it reaches your CPU there is a latency, controlled by the buffer size of your soundcard, you can change this in the soundcard control panel. Use ASIO drivers if you don't aleady do that.
If the latency is not too bothersome, you can of course just cut away the first 10-15ms of your recording, that'll get it back in sync with the rest of the track (if you're recording into a multitrack sequencer) |
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| thecYrus |
| btw. every hardware synth has internal latency too. e.g an access virus has 6 ms from the time it receives the midi note until something appears on the output. |
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| RivalMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Low Profile
Your soundcard has some latency, it's not the midi that has latency (midi is VERY quick)...
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Not quite true.
MIDI does suffer from latency (and drifting as well). There can be all sorts of reasons for this. It could be introduced by the computer, it could be clock jitter (unless you're using Big Ben or the likes to clock), the midi-device itself, the cable, a daisy-chain, the synth etc.
Also the amount of midi-messages transmitted at the same time can be a factor. If you're trying to transmit great polophony on 16 channels at the same time, while sending controller messages etc. - some of the signals will arrive noticeably late (this is due to the very nature of the midi-protocol and the "serial"-ness of the communication).
This article gives advices on how to avoid these problems and in general to improve the performance of midi-devices:
http://remixmag.com/mag/remix_question_time/index.html |
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| gr8ape |
| quote: | Originally posted by thecYrus
which sequencer do you use? cubase sx 3.1 can compensate external synth latency very well.. |
How do you do that
The delay is 10 miliseconds |
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