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Should a just goverment provide health care for its citizens. (pg. 3)
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| spdandpwr |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Did you forget a "0" in that figure, because SF's population seems a smidge low? |
as of right now that is the number of people, according to the mayor, who are uninsured. I forgot to mention that only the uninsured will be covered, as of now. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
True but this also comes with a caveat.
If you need something done IMMEDIATELY and have the cash, then a lot go to the States where the equipment is more readily available.
A good example is the movie, "The Barbarian Invasions" where a dying father is taken care of by his well off estranged son.
He wants to use 'the system' but he risks being on a waiting list and begrudgely accepts his son's help by paying for whatever needs to be done right away.
So while Universal Health Care is important, trying to put everyone in the same circle in the name of 'fairness' isn't well....fair.
There was a lot of flak when the subject of a two teired health system was suggested here in Canada, but in reality, it's already happening anyways. (You'll find a lot of articles on Google about this).
Those with the funds will go to private businesses anyways so what's the problem? If they can do it then more power to them.
Why should they be shackled just because they have more money?
Another arguement is exactly who gets the health care.
IMHO it should be someone who has at least lived in the Canada for at least a year and actually calls Canada home.
None of this "Canada being the land of convenience", bouncing between here and their "Homeland", using/exploiting the system when they don't pay enough back in by the way of taxes.
It's not fair for the rest of us (native Canadians) who have been paying into it for years. |
the new photo healthcards came about after inquiries found that americans were comming across the border and using someones ohip card to get free treatments. but i agree you need permanent resident status in order to get free healthcare here. none of this move to canada for 6 months for cancer treatment then off back to your home country. |
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| Temperate |
My cousin lived in italy (GUIDO!).
he had cancer and he was on a waiting list to be treated.
But their state-run health care sucks so much that he died before he was ever treated.
6 years on a waiting list. that's wrong... that is another reason I hate italy (Beside the obious [corruption]) |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Temperate
My cousin lived in italy (GUIDO!).
he had cancer and he was on a waiting list to be treated.
But their state-run health care sucks so much that he died before he was ever treated.
6 years on a waiting list. that's wrong... that is another reason I hate italy (Beside the obious [corruption]) |
I'm sorry to hear that.
That is why state-run health care equals a big no no. It can't possibly work efficient enough to treat the people who need to be treated. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
I'm sorry to hear that.
That is why state-run health care equals a big no no. It can't possibly work efficient enough to treat the people who need to be treated. |
neither does a system where people sell their house to pay for treatment. |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
neither does a system where people sell their house to pay for treatment. |
Than it just sounds to me that people couldn't afford a house to begin with. |
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| eROs.au |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Than it just sounds to me that people couldn't afford a house to begin with. |
Not really. Do you have the slightest clue how much treatment costs for a cancer patient? Often times more than a house :rolleyes: |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by eROs.au
Not really. Do you have the slightest clue how much treatment costs for a cancer patient? Often times more than a house :rolleyes: |
Yes, it does cost a lot. But I believe he was referring to how much health insurance costs here in the US. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Than it just sounds to me that people couldn't afford a house to begin with. |
Depends on what needs to be done; I've heard some stories about bills being VERY high down there in the States...:nervous: |
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| metalgearsolid |
| ^Yes, that is true. It often goes to people who are uninsured. I heard of this one story a patient needed to have brain surgery and he was uninsured. So, the hospital went with the surgery and than charged him 2million dollars. If he was insured he wouldn't have to pay nor would the costs have been so high. |
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| NeoPhono |
Unfortunately I'm too busy to drag myself into this as much as I'd like to, but I'll add this.
This country already (as stated before) spends more total dollars per capita on health care than any other nation. We're number one in private spending, number 3 in public spending (by $150) and number 5 per capita in government spending. All health care dollars combined (including non-clinical health care expenses, such as billing, record keeping etc.) the United States spends $1000 more per capita on health care than its nearest "competitor." 14% of our GDP is spent on clinical heath care alone, 4% higher than the nearest nation. Some estimate that anywhere from a quarter to a third of our GDP is somehow linked to health care.
In short, we already throw a TON of money into health care in the United States. What needs to change is exactly the opposite of what a socialized medical program in the United States would do; we need to make the system more efficient, less bureaucratic and more in the control of the doctors and patients, rather than lawmakers and insurance companies. Throwing the government into the health care mix (more so than it already is) would only add to the paperwork mess, as well as the bureaucracy and "tinkering" that goes into a government program. It's the exact opposite direction we need to go.
So, what do we do? Well, that is the subject of a lengthy discussion that I just don't have the time or energy for, but I'll summarize as best as possible.
1. Lawsuit reform.
- The threat of lawsuits leads to billions of dollars worth of unneeded care. This is a major source of drain on the health care system. This is not to say that doctors/hospitals should not be accountable, it's to allow the doctor to let their knowledge of medicine dictate health care, not the fear of legal outcome.
2. Allow doctors to refuse care.
- If you come to the ER, no matter for what reason, you must, by law, be seen by a physician. Only 5-10% of people in the ER need to be there, most can be seen by a family doctor. On top of that, 1/2 to 2/3rds of the people in the ER will never pay for their treatment. So, if you're one of the 90% of people that has no reason to be in the ER, you should get triaged, and then sent out the door if you don't have a valid reason to be there.
3. Reduce paperwork and make it illegal for an insurance company to refuse care after the recommendation of the doctor.
- Reduce paperwork by lawsuit reform and by simplifying the laws and regulations that go into medicine. The second part is self explanatory.
In summary, we already pump more than enough money into our health care system. The idea of spending even more through a socialized system which does nothing but compound existing problems is ridiculous. What needs to be done is money that is lost on unneeded non-clinical applications should be recovered and spent where it is beneficial. This means not treating those who don't need it, not ordering tests and procedures that are not needed due to threat of lawsuit, reducing paperwork and bureaucracy and reducing the cost the health care industry spends "fighting" insurance companies to pay for their clients.
Like I said, I could go on and on about this, but I have a body to dissect and a whole slew of MicroCTs to go over, so if I don't post a speedy reply, I apologize in advance. |
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| Kapedan |
wow, thanks for all of this guys :)
Im writing my cases now, and i will be using some of this info. |
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