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vocals and copyright
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| trancey_spacer |
Hi,
I was wondering, if you buy some vocal samples, and you have the right to use the vocals in your productions, and edit them etc, then are you allowed to get a singer to sing different lyrics to the same vocal melody?
Thanks. |
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| thecYrus |
| yes.. it's almost the same like using synths in your tune ;) |
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| DigiNut |
| Even if the vocals were not royalty-free, it would be legal to get your own vocalists to sing the exact same vocals in the exact same melody. Copyright laws only prevent you from using pre-recorded material in your own work without a license. |
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| zenperson |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Even if the vocals were not royalty-free, it would be legal to get your own vocalists to sing the exact same vocals in the exact same melody. Copyright laws only prevent you from using pre-recorded material in your own work without a license. |
Nope. This myth is along the same lines as the old, if you mail something to yourself, it's copywritten...
In the United States you must acquire a mechanical license from the music publisher in order to re-record a copywritten sound recording. If you are going to sample from the original sound recording, you must acquire permission from both the music publisher and the copyright owner of the physical sound recording. If either says no, then you cannot sample the recording.
You may not re-record copywritten lyrics or a copywritten melody without first purchasing a mechanical license from the copyright owner of the music publication.
So, to answer your question, you may re-record the lyrics, as long as it's not explicity stated somewhere within the CD or the CD inlay that you cannot re-record the lyrics. Most CDs allow you free reign with what you purchase, but there are some that require that you pay additional fees to use the material beyond what you paid for the CD. I would even go so far as to contact the music publisher, if you are planning to use the re-recorded lyrics in any kind of commercial release where you intend to profit from the sale of the reproduction. |
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| trancey_spacer |
| no i meant singing DIFFERENT lyrics to the same vocal melody. |
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| skot_e |
My understanding would be the the melody would be covered under the copywrite of the written score (songs have 2 copywrite : score(music) and lyrics) so using different lyrics would bypass the song copywrite but not the score one.
I'd say best thing would be to contact the relevant agency in your country to clarrify from them. Of course if your not looking to release the track for financial gain it wouldn't really matter anyway.
Be curious to know what info you can find out if you do look into it, so let us know. |
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| zenperson |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancey_spacer
no i meant singing DIFFERENT lyrics to the same vocal melody. |
Your question was answered in the above response. If the melody is copywritten, then you would have to acquire copyrigt approval for the actual melody through a mechanical license from the music publisher, IF you intend to commercially release the re-recorded melody. |
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| Storyteller |
Bull. a lot of chords have been used in the same way in tons of songs, there is no such thing as copyright on a melody these days. Especially not in trance which is just filled with basic chords and chord progressions.
I don't get why people always get 110% into stuff that doesn't mean in the end. Copyright is important but you really need to now when to apply those laws and when not to. Singing another text on top of an existing chord progression is one of those things which just can't be proven *unless* you are talking about a very special and easy to recognise melody/chord progression. There are tons of songs using the same chord progressions, I don't see all producers of those compositions meeting up in court.
Hell, I would have been contacted by a 10000+ lawyers in the past few months if it was like that.
@zenperson: wouldn't it be weird to call it a crime to copy melodies and release them commercially and to condone private copying? That doesn't make sense. Think about it. Downloading music privately, which is another form of copying (and yet remarkably the same), isn't legal either. |
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| DigiNut |
You can't copyright a melody. Period. It doesn't make sense to say that one can't re-record a copyrighted melody because there is no such thing. Anyway, when copyright law talks about re-recording, it's referring to analog copies, not hiring your own vocalists and doing your own version. People do that all the time without asking for permission and without getting sued!
As for sending oneself a CD via registered mail, that's not a myth, although it is a misunderstanding to reason that the act of mailing it is what establishes the copyright. A published work is automatically copyrighted as soon as it's created - sending it to yourself through registered mail, sealed, is just a way of proving that you owned the copyright on the postmarked date. |
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| skot_e |
| So the melody is not considered part of the score? I thought that was what makes up the score? (or at least part of it) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by skot_e
So the melody is not considered part of the score? I thought that was what makes up the score? (or at least part of it) |
If it's actually part of a published score, then yes, it's protected by copyright, but the only protection that copyright affords is that another person can't publish their own version of the score. There are no restrictions on playing what's on the score and recording that - orchestras and bands across the globe do this every day, and often record their own CDs, without paying a time to the publishers. |
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| zenperson |
You guys that are saying that it's unreasonable... well, that actually doesn't mean anything to the court. The bottom line is, IF, you record a melody, and you submit your melody, in a tangeble form to the United States Patent and Trademark office, using a form PA, and pay your 45.00, then that melody is copywritten. Therefore, if someone were to re-record the melody, it would require that they seek permission of the copyright holder. Now, chord progressions do not count as melodies, because they're fundamental in the development of music.
The prime difference here is that most melodies that you hear, are representative of people who aren't that serious about suing. BUT, if you take the melody line from lets say, Pink Floyd's, Comfortably Numb, remove the lyrics and re-record the melody, and commercially profit from it, then yes, expect to be sued by a major label for copyright infringement. Or even if I took PVD's, Another Way, and re-recorded the melody on piano and mixed in a downtempo beat, I could expect to be hearing from Vandit wanting their money...
BRAINS ON BEFORE HANDS ON...
I'm only telling you the safe route to go about things. ALL of this I learned from an attorney. I'm not making this stuff up and i'm not just reasoning it out, as I suspect some of you might be.
And as for the mailing it to yourself, that's not a viable legal option to prove copyright. I learned that from the lawyer too... A court does not recognize that because there's no way to prove that you actually composed that work on that day and mailed it to yourself...I could hear my friend record a melody, go home, record that same melody, mail it to myself before he does, and BAM, it's mine. That's why the copyright office exists.... To establish standards.
Remember, this is all in the United States.. I have NO idea what Canada's standards are or any other country for that matter... |
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