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The socialists are out (pg. 2)
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| OurManFlint |
A politician can speak about the common good, but that never means they know what they are talking about. I wouldn't take the definitions from a politician too seriously, especially from the Dems nowadays because they are so flippy-floppy on everything. Nor would I take it from the Republicans, because their agenda is fixed and really just say things to promote their agenda.
The common good should be simply to extend welfare to the common good so that one day, if you are ever in need of that welfare, it will be there. That's it. There should ofcourse be incentives so that most people would never depend on this welfare unless they really needed it, but that topic would be too complex for the scope of this post. The common good should never be a social concept, because that's when individual freedoms like who people want to marry, or if I want to go to a club in the US at age 20 whether or not I drink.
I think both parties have two very faint definitions of what is the common good. It should very well exist, but in government, their should be an agreement on what it wants to promote. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Else why do they want everyone to get married in a certain way, lead the mainstream (as opposed to alternative) lifestyle, etc. They are the ones advocating "the common good". Don't believe me? Look at patriotism. Patriotism and "loving your country" and all that. American flags in every house. "We support our troops" in Suburbia and all that . |
actually it's reverse. Republicans don't want "everyone" to get married. it should be "exclusive" to "certain types" of people.
so you're wrong.
and the thing about patriotism is a red herring. has nothing to do with anything but one's "individual" expression of pride. what? do want to outlaw patriotism en masse? you'd be wrong again.
| quote: | | Hey, I wanna travel to Cuba to catch some tan, but your goddamn Republicans restrict my individual freedom to do so. Oh yea I forgot, I'd also like to be able to buy alcohol any day of the week. Can you convey this to your Republican friends please. |
it was a Democrat who originally posted a ban on travel. Guess who?
Carter lifted the ban in 1977 and Reagan dropped it again in 1982. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
i think its funny to see people taking things like this seriously. its merely a rhetorical device to win votes. as if its anywhere near anything like socialism :haha: but of course, thats how the republicans will paint it.
| quote: |
The term is so broad it's hard to define and can be misinterpreted as a call for "big government," Perriello said. |
yeah, because the last 6 years have seen a curtailing of the federal government's size and reach. the republicans, champions of fiscal responsibility and small government :rolleyes:
its interesting to see people cry about welfare in a state with some of the stingiest welfare provisions in the world, yet spending tax dollars on futile wars still sees a measure of support. |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | | why are greater government provisions for social welfare necessarily "anti-individualistic"? |
Because government accomplishes nothing in the economic arena without first confiscating wealth...stealing the property of those who earned it through voluntary exchange.
Let's keep it simple. Taxation is theft.
A 100% tax rate is SLAVERY, since you work for nothing at a 100% tax rate. A nice friendly socialistic tax rate of 30% can only be described as "partial enslavement", forcing someone to work 1/3 of the year without compensation.
How exactly is this not a restriction on individual liberty?
And BTW, we 30% is an extremely low rate for most countries. When factoring in government taxes at all levels (federal, state, and local), and remembering that you are taxed MANY times (when you earn the money, when you save it, AND when you spend it), most people easily pay 50%+ in direct taxes.
So basically, you are working more than half of every day for the "common good", and the left still doesn't think it's enough. (In fact, you are "selfish" if you want tax relief.)
If all this wasn't bad enough, most people forget about the HUGE amount of hidden taxes we all pay. Special taxes we pay on things like gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol, airline tickets, phone lines, etc. And we certainly can't neglect the so-called "corporate taxes" politicians love to brag about, which are of course passed on DIRECTLY to employees and consumers in the form of lower wages/higher prices...
I feel sick thinking about all of this. Freedom is vanishing from every country, and parties on both sides of the aisle seem to have accepted it. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Because government accomplishes nothing in the economic arena without first confiscating wealth...stealing the property of those who earned it through voluntary exchange.
Let's keep it simple. Taxation is theft.
A 100% tax rate is SLAVERY, since you work for nothing at a 100% tax rate. A nice friendly socialistic tax rate of 30% can only be described as "partial enslavement", forcing someone to work 1/3 of the year without compensation.
How exactly is this not a restriction on individual liberty?
And BTW, we 30% is an extremely low rate for most countries. When factoring in government taxes at all levels (federal, state, and local), and remembering that you are taxed MANY times (when you earn the money, when you save it, AND when you spend it), most people easily pay 50%+ in direct taxes.
So basically, you are working more than half of every day for the "common good", and the left still doesn't think it's enough. (In fact, you are "selfish" if you want tax relief.)
If all this wasn't bad enough, most people forget about the HUGE amount of hidden taxes we all pay. Special taxes we pay on things like gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol, airline tickets, phone lines, etc. And we certainly can't neglect the so-called "corporate taxes" politicians love to brag about, which are of course passed on DIRECTLY to employees and consumers in the form of lower wages/higher prices...
I feel sick thinking about all of this. Freedom is vanishing from every country, and parties on both sides of the aisle seem to have accepted it. |
Great post. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| spare us the libertarian bull. anyone that thinks taxation isnt a necessary evil is kidding themselves. |
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| metalgearsolid |
It is necessary evil but people who decide not to work and take advantage of sec 8 are parasites. Gov shouldn't provide anything like that. We lease an apartment to a sec8 and the ****** has cost us over 9k dollars in damages. All the contractors have said the same that the damage done was caused by somebody. He has called the city and they are pressuring us to "fix" code violations that weren't there be4. He has done it twice. One day I went to talk with the city and the guy had the nerve to tell me that the apartment was city property and not mine. Basically, I have to get a lawyer now to kick him out because he wants to sue me to stay in the apartment for longer than what the lease says. There are only two people suppose to live in there but he has his child and two grandchildren now.
I can't do anything because the city defends him and he's a piece of . Sec 8 keeps parasites breathing. Any social welfare does.
I pay taxes and have little say and this guy doesn't pay for anything and he has more say than I do. is that fair? Basically, if some one is going to get taxed than he deserves more say. Except if the person is super rich. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
spare us the libertarian bull. anyone that thinks taxation isnt a necessary evil is kidding themselves. |
I certainly didn't mean to indicate that I thought taxation should be eliminated. Certainly our government must be funded in order to provide the public goods we have entrusted them to provide. However, I thought his comments put things in perspective rather well. There is waaaaay too much unneccessary pork and both sides of the aisle are responsible for their wreckless spending. The last thing I'd like to see is more "entitlement" spending in the name of the "common good". I wonder how many politicians even know how to balance a checkbook or reconcile a bank statement.
I have paid over $20K in taxes this year and I'm desperate to get a new car, but it's rather difficult when I see nearly 30% of every paycheck thrown out the window on things I largely do not benefit from. |
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| Fir3start3r |
Nice post Capitalizt (been a while too ;))
Not sure if any of you are aware of this website, speaking of government spending...
http://www.porkbusters.org/
There's a blog roll on the left of other similar sites.
It's a great non-partisan look at government waste.
It's American based, but interesting non-the-less. |
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| Capitalizt |
Fire, is that Tifa in your sig? Another FF7 fan.
W00T!
:tongue2 |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Fire, is that Tifa in your sig? Another FF7 fan.
W00T!
:tongue2 |
Make that a double w00t! Can't wait to see the FF series on the PS3. |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Make that a double w00t! Can't wait to see the FF series on the PS3. |
What the hell you guys. If you want to talk about FF go to the game forum not on PDD:wtf: |
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