|
Gack! The dems just threw Virginia
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Shakka |
You just can't write this stuff folks. Well maybe you can. George Allen going for blood.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashaw.htm
| quote: | The press release, as provided by the Allen Campaign:
WEBB’S WEIRD WORLD
The Author’s Disturbing Writings Show a Continued Pattern of Demeaning Women
· Some of Webb’s writings are very disturbing for a candidate hoping to represent the families of Virginians in the U.S. Senate.
· Many excellent books about the United States military and wartime service accomplish their purposes, and even win awards, without systematically demeaning women, and without dehumanizing women, men and even children.
· Webb’s novels disturbingly and consistently – indeed, almost uniformly – portray women as servile, subordinate, inept, incompetent, promiscuous, perverted, or some combination of these. In novel after novel, Webb assigns his female characters base, negative characteristics. In thousands of pages of fiction penned by Webb, there are few if any strong, admirable women or positive female role models.
Why does Jim Webb refuse to portray women in a respectful, positive light, whether in his non-fiction concerning their role in the military, or in his provocative novels? How can women trust him to represent their views in the Senate when chauvinistic attitudes and sexually exploitive references run throughout his fiction and non-fiction writings?
· Most Virginians and Americans would find passages such as those below shocking, especially coming from the pen of someone who seeks the privilege of serving in the United States Senate, one of the highest offices in the land:
– Lost Soldiers: “A shirtless man walked toward them along a mud pathway. His muscles were young and hard, but his face was devastated with wrinkles. His eyes were so red that they appeared to be burned by fire. A naked boy ran happily toward him from a little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy’s penis in his mouth.”
Bantam Books, NY, 1st Edition, 2001, (hard cover), page 333.
Quote is from para. 10,.Chap. 34.
– Something to Die For: "Fogarty . . . watch[ed] a naked young stripper do the splits over a banana. She stood back up, her face smiling proudly and her round breasts glistening from a spotlight in the dim bar, and left the banana on the bar, cut in four equal sections by the muscles of her vagina."
William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 36.
Avon Books, New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 35
Quote is from para. 29, Chap. 2 “The South China Sea,”, Section 2
– A Country Such as This: "[He] could see Jawbone and Ashley Asthmatic [two guards at a Vietnamese prison camp] napping together in the grass. They faced inward, their arms entwined. It looked like they were masturbating each other. It didn't surprise him. … It was common to see men holding hands, embracing, playing with each other. Some of them [the guards] had wanted him. He could tell in those evanescent moments between his bao cao bow, the obligatory deference when a guard entered his cell, and the first word or blow that followed it… Quick, grinding voices, turgid with repressed passion. An exploratory reaching of the hand near his groin…”
Doubleday & Co., Garden City, NY, 1983 (hardcover); page 396.
Bluejacket Books, 2001 (Trade paperback edition), page 396
Page numbers are the same in the Naval Institute Press (paperback) edition, 1983.
Quote is from fifth para, Part 5 “A Country Such As This,” Chap. 24, Section 1
– A Sense of Honor: “Nurse Goodbody, dark and voluptuous (Lenahan had forgotten her actual name, it was something long and Italian), was a bedtime friend to many of the doctors in Bethesda. She had hinted to Lenahan that she simply could not contain herself. Doctors tending to patients, she explained, aroused her. Morphine Mary (again Lenahan could not remember her exact name) was a thin, nervous drill sergeant type, a disciplinarian who did not allow her patients even to complain. Lenahan was convinced that Morphine Mary did not even sleep with her husband. She wasn’t bad looking, he mused again, staring at her thin frame. If she’d just get laid every now and then she’d mellow out and stop being such a damn witch.” (p. 164) (Lenahan brings Goodbody home with him and has sex, pp. 188-190)
Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 164
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 164
Quote is from fourth para in Part 3, “Chapter 4:1600”
– Something to Die For: "[Fogarty] has been thinking of the firm, springy skin and the sweet smells of a young Filipina woman named Maria in whose bed he had spent three nights almost twenty years ago. . . . She was a deliciously bad young woman. . . . On the second night, he had brought her a box of Godiva chocolates . . . . he had awakened to find her in the bathroom, sitting on the toilet with her knees underneath her chin, eating chocolates and counting her rosary beads as she prayed."
William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 32.
Avon Books New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 30
Quote is from third para in Chapter 2 “South China Sea,”, Part 2
– Something to Die For: "We're on our way to becoming the world's recreational center, a nation [USA] not to be taken seriously. Where are we still the undisputed leader? Music. Movies. Fast food. Drugs. . . . the billboards fifty years from now as you come over the bridge and stop at the tollbooths outside Manhattan: A smiling beautiful naked woman, and the sign saying AMERICAN ASS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCT."
William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 199.
Avon Books New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 237
Quote is from para. 38, Chap. 13, Part 1, (five paras before Part 2).
– Fields of Fire: Snake (the protagonist) sees his mother on the bed: "She looked as if she were carefully attempting to re-create a picture from some long-forgotten men's magazine . . . . She was naked underneath the robe . . . . and the robe fell loosely away, revealing her. Snake shrugged resignedly."
Prentice-Hall, New York, 1978 (Hardcover, 1st edition), p. 8
Bantam Books "mass market [paperback] edition" published in Sept. 2001. p. 9.
Quote is from paragraphs 18-23, Part 1 “The Best We Have”, Section 1
(NOTE: Part 1 is after the Prologue)
– Fields of Fire: "He saw the invitation with every bouncing breast and curved hip. . . . He was thirteen. . . . She was fifteen . . . . In a few moments she drew him to her and he murmured in his quiet voice, 'I am still small.' 'You are large enough,' she answered. And he found he was."
Prentice-Hall, New York, 1978 (Hardcover, 1st edition), pp. 211-212
Bantam Books "mass market [paperback] ed." published in Sept. 2001, pp. 280-81.
Quote is from paragraphs 8-20, Part 2 “The End of the Pipeline,” Chapter 24
– A Sense of Honor: “… that is, if you knew who your sister was, Brustein, and if she’d been born with anything between her legs except an , I’d be happy to bring some class to your low-rent name by knocking the bitch up.” (p. 223)
Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 223
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 223
Quote is from 17th para in Part 4, “Chapter 7:1930”
– A Sense of Honor: “You wouldn’t have believed it, Swede. She just dropped her britches and lifted up her skirt and pissed like a man. Didn’t lose a drop, either. Not a drop.” (p. 183)
Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 183
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 183
Quote is from 23rd para in Part 3, “Chapter 8: 2300”
END |
Pretty sick stuff.
EDIT: Just saw that Q had posted this in the elections thread, but this is so juicy it deserves a thread of its own. I can't wait to hear the defense of this. |
|
|
| Renegade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
I can't wait to hear the defense of this. |
They are works of fiction and have nothing to do with his political policies?
Not surprising to see Drudge involved in spreading this this sort of irrlevent pap two weeks from an election, by the way. I wonder if he was sufficiently morally outraged to report indignantly on Scooter Libby's novel as well?
| quote: | | At age ten the madam put the child in a cage with a bear trained to couple with young girls so the girls would be frigid and not fall in love with their patrons. They fed her through the bars and aroused the bear with a stick when it seemed to lose interest. |
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conte...ta_talk_collins |
|
|
| Groundhog Boy |
I'm not going to comment on content, because it's quite easy to take things out of context. That's why it doesn't surprise me that this is coming out now, as it won't leave much time for people to get more than the sound bytes they chose to reveal before the election in 10 days.
There's lots of great fiction with graphic sexual descriptions, but then again, many Americans wouldn't know that because they don't read. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: |
"It's not a sexual act," Webb told Plotkin regarding the "Lost Soldiers" excerpt. "I actually saw this happen in a slum in Bangkok when I was there as a journalist."
"The duty of a writer is to illuminate his surroundings," he added.
Coincidentally, a Cambodian woman in Las Vegas is facing sexual assault charges for performing a similar act on her young son, according to an Oct. 14 report in the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
The article quotes an office manager for the Cambodian Association of America, who described the act as a sign of respect or love.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics...L20061027c.html
|
Why let context and facts get in the way of a good smear campaign? So when can we jump on the anti-McCain bandwaggon for praising this book?
Also someone please explain to me why Lynne Cheney and Bill O'Reilly support incest?
 |
|
|
| Shakka |
| Man. These rationalizations are great. Fiction it may be, but I don't think it's fiction that will sit well on a lot of voters' stomachs. Hey, maybe Mark Foley's IMs were just one crazy crackpot typing his fictional fantasies down on an Internet window. Yeah, they're only words--what's the harm? What a double-standard. |
|
|
| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
I can't wait to hear the defense of this. |
Well, the matter hardly warrants a moment's attention, but if you insist...
| quote: | | Some of Webb’s writings are very disturbing for a candidate hoping to represent the families of Virginians in the U.S. Senate. |
Some might say that those who are easily disturbed are such because they are weak-minded.
| quote: | | Many excellent books about the United States military and wartime service accomplish their purposes, and even win awards, without systematically demeaning women, and without dehumanizing women, men and even children. |
... and? Many novels win awards without containing a lot of things, but the diversity of literature is itself valuable, even those aspects of it which some might find "disturbing."
Also, if the accusation is to be made that Webb's books demean women "systematically," then it should be supported with some sort of rationale. Please describe the specific parameters of the system.
| quote: | | Webb’s novels disturbingly and consistently – indeed, almost uniformly – portray women as servile, subordinate, inept, incompetent, promiscuous, perverted, or some combination of these. In novel after novel, Webb assigns his female characters base, negative characteristics. In thousands of pages of fiction penned by Webb, there are few if any strong, admirable women or positive female role models. |
I fail to see the relevance. The suggestion that the type of characters that an author chooses to write is representative of their feelings regarding a gender is an obvious non-sequitur.
| quote: | | Most Virginians and Americans would find passages such as those below shocking, especially coming from the pen of someone who seeks the privilege of serving in the United States Senate, one of the highest offices in the land: |
How embarassing for Virginia and America.
| quote: |
[list of innocuous quotations]
|
Nothing here strikes me as particularly disturbing, nor especially demeaning to women in general. I also noted that none of his supposedly disrespectful references towards women in his non-fiction were included. You might even say that such an omission is conspicuous.
This feeble attempt to disparage Webb because he fails to portray war and individuals surrounded by it in an upbeat, positive way might have comedic value if it weren't being espoused by the campaign of a man who has been placed in such a position of authority. Instead, it only serves as a grim reminder of the failures of our political system. |
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Well, the matter hardly warrants a moment's attention, but if you insist...
|
On the contrary--I think it's getting plenty of attention. I have condemned both sides of the aisle for things that I find deeply disturbing. Amazing how some of you guys can draw such a clear line in the sand over this issue when it is so gray it's funny.
One of the most level-headed liberals I work with (and a good friend) agrees that this issue (no matter how much you think it's just "meaningless fiction") is likely to do Mr. Webb in. My god it's just ing gross. I've seen and read some pretty ing disturbing tings in my life, but this is some pretty disturbing stuff. If you don't even flinch when you read that...you are more deeply depraved than I. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Man. These rationalizations are great. Fiction it may be, but I don't think it's fiction that will sit well on a lot of voters' stomachs. Hey, maybe Mark Foley's IMs were just one crazy crackpot typing his fictional fantasies down on an Internet window. Yeah, they're only words--what's the harm? What a double-standard. |
Are you equating sexual assualt on a minor with a fictional novel that portrays an actual South East Asian custom? |
|
|
| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Man. These rationalizations are great. Fiction it may be, but I don't think it's fiction that will sit well on a lot of voters' stomachs. Hey, maybe Mark Foley's IMs were just one crazy crackpot typing his fictional fantasies down on an Internet window. Yeah, they're only words--what's the harm? What a double-standard. |
Have you read American Psycho? Most of that fiction wouldn't sit well with voters, but if I actually though Brett Easton Ellis would be a good politician, his writings in that book (and others of his) wouldn't affect me.
Regarding Foley, come on, we all know that wasn't fiction. He admitted it.
Also, the response from CNN's political ticker.
| quote: | Webb says Allen's attacks are latest 'smear'
RICHMOND, Virginia (CNN) -- Democratic Virginia Senate candidate Jim Webb Friday called the circulation of several sexual passages from his novels by his Republican opponent, Sen. George Allen, a baseless character assassination.
The first, and most disturbing, quote describes a shirtless man picking up a naked boy who runs toward him. The book describes what happens after the man picks up the boy and turns him upside down. It comes from the 2001 book "Lost Soldiers."
"Let me explain what that was," Webb told the Washington Post Radio. "I actually saw this happen in a slum of Bangkok and when I was there as a journalist. A man placing his lips on his son's private parts. ...And the duty of a writer is to illuminate the surroundings.
"There is nothing that's been in any of my novels that, in my view, hasn't been illuminating the surroundings or defining a character or moving a plot," Webb added.
The former Navy secretary said that to pull excerpts from his writings "and force them on people, sort of, like pound them over the head with them" rather than having someone read the entire book "is just a classic example of the way this (Allen) campaign has worked. And you know, its smear after smear."
"This is a Karl Rove campaign," Webb said, referring to the head of President Bush's 2004 re-election bid. "We have known this one was coming for quite some time." |
|
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Are you equating sexual assualt on a minor with a fictional novel that portrays an actual South East Asian custom? |
Not that action of assault, rather the lovely, tawdry, disgusting instant message conversation that we all got to read. I mean, it's just words after all. They should strike it from the record and not be admissible in court.:rolleyes:
Drag 'em all out and shoot 'em. They're ing sick. |
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Have you read American Psycho? Most of that fiction wouldn't sit well with voters, but if I actually though Brett Easton Ellis would be a good politician, his writings in that book (and others of his) wouldn't affect me. |
One of my favorite movies actually. I haven't had the time to read the novel though. Did Ellis actually run for public office? I probably wouldn't have voted for him though. I'd prefer my elected officials spend their time doing something more productive than imagining sucking their little sons' peepees and slicing bananas with vagina muscles.
I got $10 that says Webb loses almost entirely due to this well-timed GOP election ploy. I got a paypal account. Who wants in? |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Not that action of assault, rather the lovely, tawdry, disgusting instant message conversation that we all got to read. I mean, it's just words after all. They should strike it from the record and not be admissible in court.:rolleyes:
Drag 'em all out and shoot 'em. They're ing sick. |
Are you equating sexual conversations with a minor with a fictional novel that portrays an actual South East Asian custom? |
|
|
|
|
