Say what you want to say about Kerry, when he says things like this (that are simply not even an accurate characterization of our military) it is no wonder that most in the military can't stand the guy.
There may be some in the military who use it as a positive ramp/stepping stone to something better because they lack the education and experience to pursue something else, however to paint them the way he does here is simply inaccurate. Some of the best schools in the nation have ROTC programs that put out some very bright military minds. Plenty of them have been to Iraq (several of my friends from college have served tours). Even if this was taken out of context somehow, it is a cheap political pot shot that is inaccurate. Go to school or get blown up in George Bush's fake war that I supported at first but later changed my mind about...
HardTranceProd
I actually agree. He does seem to have a weird, mean streak. It was first 'revealed' when he made a reference to Cheney's daughter being lesbian...
metalgearsolid
The guy is one of the TA's probably.
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Say what you want to say about Kerry, when he says things like this (that are simply not even an accurate characterization of our military) it is no wonder that most in the military can't stand the guy.
There may be some in the military who use it as a positive ramp/stepping stone to something better because they lack the education and experience to pursue something else, however to paint them the way he does here is simply inaccurate. Some of the best schools in the nation have ROTC programs that put out some very bright military minds. Plenty of them have been to Iraq (several of my friends from college have served tours). Even if this was taken out of context somehow, it is a cheap political pot shot that is inaccurate. Go to school or get blown up in George Bush's fake war that I supported at first but later changed my mind about...
Boy Rush and Slanthead sure had a field day with this little distortion, didn't they? It's interesting to think about - a decorated war veteran supposedly going after the troops, you say? Or maybe, just maybe he was pertaining his quote to another context?
Strange, once again, to think that he might be taken out of context. Even more strange, once again, to see those indignant chickenhawk, chicken Wingnut mouthpieces going after him. Really now, Shakka, you know I'm no big fan of Kerry myself, and granted the guy really could say things with more clarity at times, but do you really think that he was pertaining to the troops being stupid here?
You ******s are really that desperate, aren't you? Bush demanding an apology from Kerry for the sake of the troops? Is that supposed to be funny? Because it is. It's the complete height of hypocricy coming from our dip Chief who's done such wonders for our troops, a demand from a chicken himself who opted out of fighting a war and ran away from his own responsibilities as well as his 5 deferrments VP, demanding an apology on behalf of the troops? And before you say, "Oh Christ, here we go again with Bush's history", my reply is damn right we're going to bring that up. You wanna throw Kerry back into the ring like it's '04 all over again because you guys need a boogeyman so ing desparately (despite the real boogeyman still running free in Pakistan somewhere), well then it's perfectly ing fair to retrack those old attacking points on either side.
So what was Kerry's response? Wholly appropriate, I believe:
quote:
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.
The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.
Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men. And this time it won't work because we're going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq ."
You want to have a debate on who's supporting the troops more? You want to have that debate on where the votes have gone for the troops over the past few years?:
You want to have that debate, sir? By all means, let's discuss who hates the troops more with their actions, not words. Let's discuss body armour, vehicle armour, troop protection, troop numbers, and so on. Let's see the rhetoric in your party match the actions versus the Dems., and then perhaps we can discuss who owes who a ing apology, sir.
And finally, one other point to note - you GOPers do a terrific job attacking the other party. If only you could match that fire by actually attacking the enemies of America, then perhaps that Osama character and his minions may not still be running around with such terrific recruiting numbers, in Iraq no less. If only such passion in your party was matched by actually protecting us and our troops, we might be just a wee bit better off. Then again, that wishful thinking never really got us very far over the past 6 years anyway.
MisterOpus1
And one other thing - this whole talk about folks in the military hating Kerry before his run for the President in '04 - it's funny how a number of those folks who supposedly "hated" him were the same ones that gave him praises and decorated his record prior to jumping on the Smear Boat wagon. I do believe much of this was documented already.
The others who disagreed with his speech to the Senate that helped get us the out of that mess of a war are of course entitled to their own opinion, and even though I may disagree with it I will still respect their opinions. It was difficult for anyone to hear about the atrocities that Kerry had reported about to which he had heard from others. No one wanted to hear about such massacres, and there are those who to this day seemingly deny such documented massacres occurred by our own troops.
But as stated previously, it's funny that we're even talking about Kerry. Is he running for office? No? Well he sure makes a great boogeyman, doesn't he? By the way, how is Osama?
washout
there are 2 parts to this problem.
to isolate the problem, assume these first.
1. assume no political preference.
2. assume we are in iraq and that cannot be changed.
the first part of the problem involves what kerry said.
kerry blamed bad education as a culprit for serving in the war.
sure we have problems in education.
the idea that a poor education system would cause someone to enter service is absurd.
the second part of the problem lies in the implications of his statement.
people should support our men and women.
we are in a situation that we cannot help, the least we can do is support those that are in the middle of it.
kerry's statements insulted those men and women, they insult me, and they should insult you.
stevieboy32808
Yeah that's offensive, but he's just saying what's already been said. If you look past the cracking of a joke you'll see that he's making fun of Bush for lowering army recruitment standards by letting the old, delinquiennt, and borderline retarded join the force. He's pointing out the trend that nobody wants to take part in Bush's unjust war.
Originally posted by washout
there are 2 parts to this problem.
to isolate the problem, assume these first.
1. assume no political preference.
Why assume no political preference again?
quote:
2. assume we are in iraq and that cannot be changed.
False assumption. That can be changed, which the majority of Americans have wanted for some time now. Even a number of Bush's posse are entertaining and admitting such an event can and should likely be changed.
quote:
the first part of the problem involves what kerry said.
kerry blamed bad education as a culprit for serving in the war.
sure we have problems in education.
He did nothing of the sort. Did you hear the entire speech? Do you have any idea what he was actually referring to? It was obvious as hell to anyone listening to the entire speech that he was referring to Bush's sincere lack of interest and plan on the Iraqi debacle. A botched joke is one thing. Blowing this up entirely into a bull distraction from your party's real problems with Iraq and complete utter foreign policy failures is quite something different.
quote:
the idea that a poor education system would cause someone to enter service is absurd.
This straw man doesn't need to be addressed any further.
quote:
the second part of the problem lies in the implications of his statement.
people should support our men and women.
Check.
quote:
we are in a situation that we cannot help,
Sure we can. Vote Democratic. Hold those individuals accountable. Bring balance back into our government between two parties so we can quell the corruption and shoot from the hip foreign policies that have gotten us into so much at present. Not that difficult, really.
quote:
the least we can do is support those that are in the middle of it.
My earlier post addresses those Congressmen who seemingly do not so hot in supporting the troops and veterans. Quite strange how the top of the list is filled almost entirely of GOP folks, ain't it?
quote:
kerry's statements insulted those men and women, they insult me, and they should insult you.
A botched joke doesn't insult me much in the slightest. Cracking jokes and poking fun at his utter failures to find WMDs by looking for them under furnature at the Oval Office at a black-tie dinner for Radio and TV suck-up lapdogs is quite more insulting to those brave men and women whom were put in harm's way under false pretenses:
To me that's way more ing insulting to see, considering that was the actual rationale as to why and how we got there in the first place. Yeah, that's really ing funny, isn't it?
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by stevieboy32808
He's pointing out the trend that nobody wants to take part in Bush's unjust war.
you mean "nobody" thats not old, delinquent and borderline retarded?
Krypton
That just reinforced what I already thought of the guy; as a politician.
Q5echo
quote:
"Suddenly this picture is relevant again"
:haha:
everyone knows Kerry douches every once in a while, cut the guy some slack he was foot steps from becoming the leader of the free world for goodness sake.
way to Swift-Boat youself again John. do you even wonder why anymore?
hey, you still got MisterOpus' vote;) so don't get too down in the dumps.
Update:< Kerry has once again become the Typhoid Mary of the Democratic Party.>link<
we won't see this cockmaster within a city block of a microphone for the next six days, bummer.
he's been relegated to phone duties in a make shift office at the Capitol with the other pariah Horard Dean.
Shakka
Honestly Opus, it almost irritates me more that he has to try and somehow rationalize something that he clearly meant as a pot shot that blew up in his face. I suggested from my first post that perhaps there was some context missing due more to the brevity of the video, but the words were what they were. Poor Mr. Horseface has a severe and ongoing case of foot-in-mouth disease.
A poorly executed joke? Sure, I can buy that because there's nothing remotely funny about the guy--he has no sense of humor. But seriously, I'd be much more willing to overlook his insulting comment if he came out and said, "yeah, that was a poor choice of words and I can see how it might've been taken offensively. I am sorry. I apologize for being a douchebag."
Instead we get him on the defensive trying to rationalize what he said as an attack on the Bush administration when it was quite obviously more offensive to anyone who wears a uniform. Did you know that of our standing military of over 700,000 only some what, 150,000 or so are in Iraq? What does that say about the rest of 'em? Are the retards as well? For 's sake, just apologize and get over it, don't try to rationalize something stupid that you just said.
Maybe if you could convince me he was drunk off his ass I would be less offended. But again--when Kerry says things like that, is it really that big a surprise that so many in the military can't stand the guy?
