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compression and eq on master track (pg. 2)
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| jahnlay |
Just one thing, if you're going to be sending your track on to a mastering engineer, don't add any compression to the master bus, leave it as dynamic as possible. This will give the mastering engineer more room to move.
If you're just after a bit of home mastering, add these in a chain, in this exact order:
1. Second harmonic distortion or exciter unit (Makes your sound more analog sounding) like puncher in wavelab. You could also use a bit of saturator on a light setting to add more warmth.
2. Eq
3. Multi-band compressor, like PSP Vintage Warmer or Waves C4
4. High performance limiter, like Steinberg Peakmaster, Waves L-Series and George Yohng's W1
5. Dither
Then get your favourite sounding tracks and try and match the eq tone and level. This is a great way to do some basic home mastering.
(I'm a mastering engineer for a living). |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
A compressor by its very definition prevents distortion by limiting the output gain dynamically.
I personally hate sticking compressors on top of compressors unless you want to do something very specific to a sound (reduce a clipping transient or prevent a clip or to change the...'shape' of a sound)
Just remember that sticking any sort of processor on the master bus is indescriminate - which is one reason I dislike it. It will affect everything - even certain sounds which do not need compression of any sort and which will sound worse because of it.
If you have to stick a compressor on the master bus to make your tunes louder you are missing the point. That should tell you that you have massive problems in the mix - lots of places where 0 phase instruments are sharing the same frequency ranges. Or where transients are overlapping. You need to fix those - not stick a compressor on the whole thing. Thats just avoiding the problem entirely and I guarantee the results will always sound . They always do, when you don't think the whole process through. |
I think you're exaggerating just a tad. You're absolutely right in principle that 99% of problems are with the mix, not the mastering, and that good mastering can never save a poor mix. But virtually every track you hear on a CD or on vinyl has probably had a few extra dB squeezed out of it with some type of mastering compressor/limiter.
Which is why I said that if you're trying to pull more than a few dB out of that compressor (or overlay multiple compressors) then you're probably overcompressing. But to say that any mastering compression at all is always bad is, well, not true. |
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| DJ Shibby |
2:1 if you're using compressing
I always EQ the master track to remove any sounds below 20Hz and above 20KHz (sometimes changing depending on how i want the mood of the track to feel).
My advice...
Keep the EQ as stated above only, and drop the compression, switching it with a nicely modeled limiter. |
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| Derivative |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I think you're exaggerating just a tad. You're absolutely right in principle that 99% of problems are with the mix, not the mastering, and that good mastering can never save a poor mix. But virtually every track you hear on a CD or on vinyl has probably had a few extra dB squeezed out of it with some type of mastering compressor/limiter.
Which is why I said that if you're trying to pull more than a few dB out of that compressor (or overlay multiple compressors) then you're probably overcompressing. But to say that any mastering compression at all is always bad is, well, not true. |
But I didn't say mastering compression was bad :( I just said that whatever you do on the master bus will effect every channel - even those channels which don't need compression and will sound worse because of it.
The greatest hallmark of a good mix is that it doesn't need much work at the mastering stage. Thats when you know your mixdown is perfect.
The funny thing is to get to the stage where your mixdowns are that flawless you need to know the maths behind it all. Which would essentially make you a mastering engineer. And when you are a mastering engineer you are in a position where you can make money off people whose mixdowns aren't perfect. |
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| djms |
i alwaays stick PSP warmer on the master or stick Izope on the master after I tweak the settings in it. My levels never stay under 0 db for a pumping sound so usually have to keep them under 0 db by adding a compressor
Other fun things to add to master channel are filters - automate the filter on the master in small bursts in your track to add energy or signify a change. |
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| Derivative |
But why would you do that though? Add Filter modulation to the master? You would be filtering everything.
Why would you have problems going over 0 dB? Lower the gain on the master bus. If that makes the whole track really quiet then you have a massive problem in the mixdown with overlapping frequency ranges in the same phase. That needs to be fixed or you will have permanent headroom problems. And theres a good chance it won't sound good anyway.
Filter modulation is great. On specific instruments, where it is needed. On everything, it would just be obvious and sound...weird. If the extent of that modulation is so subtle that it isn't perceptible - then why does it need to be there?
I'm a big fan of Ockam's Razor. Keep it simple. Get it right. Reason every decision you make with respect to your mixdown. Draw the most obvious conclusions.
Do those high hats need to be compressed at all? No? Then don't stick a compressor on the master bus where this would happen.
Does my mix need low pass filter modulation on the master bus? Yes? Why? No? Then it doesn't need to be there.
The worst habit you can get into when producing in my humble opinion is to just throw processes onto your track like EQs and compressors without any idea of why you are doing it or whether it even needs it.
I used to plop down a kickdrum and instantly stick a compressor on it. Really bad habit. Why did I do it? Because I heard you should compress your kickdrums.
Wrong answer. If your kick drum doesn't need compression you don't need to use a compressor. How do you tell? 1) By the sound of it in relation to other instruments (NOT on its own). 2) By looking at a spectrum analysis of the kick and determining whether it has a transient big enough that it needs compression to prevent headroom problems or to soften the attack phase of the drum.
When you start sticking compressors on the masterbus and you have 20 channels and 20 separate instruments then you have to make a reasoned decision for why all those channels need compression and to what extent. If you don't do this you are doing something which my Uni tutors hated and which I now hate - winging it.
Dont wing it man :( You can get really unpredictable results. Sometimes good, but 9 times out of 10 it will be bad. The only way to know is to do the learning, take it slow and think every decision through. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
The greatest hallmark of a good mix is that it doesn't need much work at the mastering stage. Thats when you know your mixdown is perfect. |
A good mix won't need much, but it will still need some. You of all people must know that compressing channels individually is not the same as compressing them in a group because compression is not linear. Compressing on a master (or at least large groups of channels) is a legitimate way to make headroom, as long as it's not done so harshly that it squashes the mix and kills the dynamics.
I was the one that started a thread a while back about going easy on compression, if you recall. I completely agree that it's too often way overdone, but master compression isn't necessarily going to make individual channels (the ones that don't "need" compression) sound worse. Good compression is supposed to sound transparent.
| quote: | | I'm a big fan of Ockam's Razor. |
For such a fan you have a funny way of spelling it. ;) |
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| richg101 |
i recently noticed that the amount you can improve on level by comping a track largely depends on the type of track it is.
ie. a good mix down on a uplifting trance tune gets completely ed up by large compression applied. where as a minimal 'james holden' style track really benefits so much from comp/limiting
makes me think... i recon r+b producers have such an easy time making pro sounding tracks.... |
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| Felix.Hoo |
I think my question is related to the topic..
I am doing a bootleg between 2 songs... and the combined volume is over 0db on my Ableton.
I tried to use the compression and i was able to control the volume only at the expense of taking out much of the highs and "excitement" of the song.
There is also some kind of bass flange maybe due to phasing as both songs are piece together. Cant seems to get rid of it.
But somehow this phasing doesnt appear when i mixed the vinyls with my DJ mixer.
Anyone can enlighten me on this issues? |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
A compressor by its very definition prevents distortion by limiting the output gain dynamically.
I personally hate sticking compressors on top of compressors unless you want to do something very specific to a sound (reduce a clipping transient or prevent a clip or to change the...'shape' of a sound)
Just remember that sticking any sort of processor on the master bus is indescriminate - which is one reason I dislike it. It will affect everything - even certain sounds which do not need compression of any sort and which will sound worse because of it.
If you have to stick a compressor on the master bus to make your tunes louder you are missing the point. That should tell you that you have massive problems in the mix - lots of places where 0 phase instruments are sharing the same frequency ranges. Or where transients are overlapping. You need to fix those - not stick a compressor on the whole thing. Thats just avoiding the problem entirely and I guarantee the results will always sound . They always do, when you don't think the whole process through. |
dont under estimate parallel compression, its used alot today. |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by richg101
i recently noticed that the amount you can improve on level by comping a track largely depends on the type of track it is.
ie. a good mix down on a uplifting trance tune gets completely ed up by large compression applied. where as a minimal 'james holden' style track really benefits so much from comp/limiting
makes me think... i recon r+b producers have such an easy time making pro sounding tracks.... |
yup yup definatly true spot on with the examples too. |
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| Mazin_A |
leave it for the mastering engineer, better than you screw up your mix :)
Mastering as like ive understood it an art itself, so better leave it for a person that got several years of experience in this area. |
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