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Toronto Sun Article (pg. 2)
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jazz
The cops/media put out this type of stuff under the guise of "informing the public"... but they're not really trying to inform the public, they're trying to scare the public into not taking E... this strategy doesn't work, it's been proven over and over again... this article won't stop anyone from taking E the next time they go out and party... Not only that, but it actually makes things worse because the article implies that as long as you don't take a pill called "death" or a "double stack mitsubishi" you won't get a PMA pill, which is absolutely not true... |
So what I'm hearing is that all the media is paid off and that there is absolutley NO validity to this story at all. No one died of this particular pill?
There's lack of evidence either way. The reporter doesn't state where the source was for saying it was this DEATH pill that caused the deaths; thus not being 100% accurate (go figure, the media accurate lol). We're not 100% sure this guy isn't just forfilling an outside agenda. At the same time, we're not 100% sure that this guy could be on the off change right (skipping the obvious factual flaws like the price of a pill).
I don't think the point of the story was to look out for one type of pill. Although I can see how it could be interpetted that way.
I believe it was more of a reminder of knowing your sources. Do you really know where that pill came from? Who made it? Does it have 'fillers' etc etc...
I think there is still a mystery behind these little pills. Unlike other drugs like pot where comparisions of source can easily be make by geographical regions to determine quality (not always true I'll admit but B.C. pot is better than anywhere else 90% of the time), E doesn't have this.
There's no easy way to determine the quality of pot or E without trying it. If the pot was good, then you go to the same source. If the E was good, you go to the same source.
But my biggest problem in ALL if this is that POT doesn't KILL and there my friends is my descrepancy in the report generated by the columist. In the columnists eyes, I might as well be playing Russian roulette if I was to ever pop one of those things, not that I ever would anyways. (Nothing against anyone here that does, that's just my personal preference).
It's not that I don't believe the advocants or flipside...until there is absolutely some way to determine the safety of the pill I'M taking, I ain't touchin' it.
Everyone here is right, it's a choice. I choose to watch over my fellow TAs, that's all.
I hope that explains my concerns. :) |
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| Time2Burn |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I don't think the point of the story was to look out for one type of pill. Although I can see how it could be interpetted that way.
I believe it was more of a reminder of knowing your sources. Do you really know where that pill came from? Who made it? Does it have 'fillers' etc etc...
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I think for the decerning mind you are right. Take the larger context and realize that DOES happen. But yeah, "most" (general public) read this and think the worst of it all.
I guess this is where someone drops www.dancesafe.org/. And says its all about being smart about the choices you want to make. Do you research and know what you can get into...
I plan on taking one for basically the second time ever at wintergalactic and this has reminded me to be a little responsible about it.
blah blah:rolleyes: |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Time2Burn
I think for the decerning mind you are right. Take the larger context and realize that DOES happen. But yeah, "most" (general public) read this and think the worst of it all.
I guess this is where someone drops www.dancesafe.org/. And says its all about being smart about the choices you want to make. Do you research and know what you can get into...
I plan on taking one for basically the second time ever at wintergalactic and this has reminded me to be a little responsible about it.
blah blah:rolleyes: |
You got it! :)
P.S.
After you take it and start seeing dancing naked zombies with no head that start telling you that everyone around you is a pinko-Trance-commie-lover, I'll be sure you escort you to the porcelien alter and flush your head in it...lol ;) |
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| Time2Burn |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
P.S.
After you take it and start seeing dancing naked zombies with no head that start telling you that everyone around you is a pinko-Trance-commie-lover, I'll be sure you escort you to the porcelien alter and flush your head in it...lol ;) |
LOL... damn if I do... PLEAZE do!!:p I plan on doing it because lately I've been too blaw-zay at parties.. I want to be a little crazy for this |
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| Arcticboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I don't understand?? :conf:
The columnist quoted outside sources and they're misinformed?
How are they misinformed?
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OK, let me explain. The job of a journalist is not to act as a broadcaster for the police. If they're gonna publish a story, then they should do some research. First, I would like to hear details of the so called "deaths" and whether this has really been proven by autopsy. If so, clarify how high a dose we're talking about, what other circumstances (e.g. did some moron dance all night without drinking?), etc. Second, I would like the journalist to do more research by getting into the scene (they often do that for other issues so they can understand it from the "inside" and provide the public with a better story). Then, when they write, they can also present some of the reasons why these crazy ravers are "putting their lives at risk" popping pills. In other words, give people an accurate picture of raves, that it's not all about a bunch of druggies, etc. While they're at it telling us that 12 people died, they could also mention over how long, estimate as a percentage of total numbers of pills expected to have been used in these countries over the same period, and how many deaths there was in the same period directly or indirectly from perfectly legal substance such as alcohol or tobacco. Hell, they might also want to venture into how many people are shot and stabbed outside hip hop clubs in some places and compare to raves, tell us how many people out there die from eating kentucky fried chicken all their lives, etc, etc, etc
The point is, it is THEIR JOB to question and coroborate information, and at least give a half ass attempt at understanding what they're talking about and helping their readers also understand, rather than contribute to the blind ignorance already out there. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arcticboy
OK, let me explain. The job of a journalist is not to act as a broadcaster for the police. If they're gonna publish a story, then they should do some research. First, I would like to hear details of the so called "deaths" and whether this has really been proven by autopsy. If so, clarify how high a dose we're talking about, what other circumstances (e.g. did some moron dance all night without drinking?), etc. Second, I would like the journalist to do more research by getting into the scene (they often do that for other issues so they can understand it from the "inside" and provide the public with a better story). Then, when they write, they can also present some of the reasons why these crazy ravers are "putting their lives at risk" popping pills. In other words, give people an accurate picture of raves, that it's not all about a bunch of druggies, etc. While they're at it telling us that 12 people died, they could also mention over how long, estimate as a percentage of total numbers of pills expected to have been used in these countries over the same period, and how many deaths there was in the same period directly or indirectly from perfectly legal substance such as alcohol or tobacco. Hell, they might also want to venture into how many people are shot and stabbed outside hip hop clubs in some places and compare to raves, tell us how many people out there die from eating kentucky fried chicken all their lives, etc, etc, etc
The point is, it is THEIR JOB to question and coroborate information, and at least give a half ass attempt at understanding what they're talking about and helping their readers also understand, rather than contribute to the blind ignorance already out there. |
I think I touched on this (about the media anyways) but good point about the stabbings, the time period, etc etc.
The article is very vauge at best and does nothing but like you say, "contribute to the blind ignorance already out there".
While we're on this subject, does anyone know of a good article regarding E?
A nice non-partisan, non-biased article if it's possible (ie. no "It changed my Life" or "E is the Devil" type) ;) |
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| Jazz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So what I'm hearing is that all the media is paid off and that there is absolutley NO validity to this story at all. No one died of this particular pill?
There's lack of evidence either way. The reporter doesn't state where the source was for saying it was this DEATH pill that caused the deaths; thus not being 100% accurate (go figure, the media accurate lol). We're not 100% sure this guy isn't just forfilling an outside agenda. At the same time, we're not 100% sure that this guy could be on the off change right (skipping the obvious factual flaws like the price of a pill).
I don't think the point of the story was to look out for one type of pill. Although I can see how it could be interpetted that way.
I believe it was more of a reminder of knowing your sources. Do you really know where that pill came from? Who made it? Does it have 'fillers' etc etc...
I think there is still a mystery behind these little pills. Unlike other drugs like pot where comparisions of source can easily be make by geographical regions to determine quality (not always true I'll admit but B.C. pot is better than anywhere else 90% of the time), E doesn't have this.
There's no easy way to determine the quality of pot or E without trying it. If the pot was good, then you go to the same source. If the E was good, you go to the same source.
But my biggest problem in ALL if this is that POT doesn't KILL and there my friends is my descrepancy in the report generated by the columist. In the columnists eyes, I might as well be playing Russian roulette if I was to ever pop one of those things, not that I ever would anyways. (Nothing against anyone here that does, that's just my personal preference).
It's not that I don't believe the advocants or flipside...until there is absolutely some way to determine the safety of the pill I'M taking, I ain't touchin' it.
Everyone here is right, it's a choice. I choose to watch over my fellow TAs, that's all.
I hope that explains my concerns. :) |
um ok, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say :) ... I'm not saying the media is paid off, or that this story is untrue... what I'm saying is that you can't rely on the media to give accurate information when it comes to illegal drugs... and I think you have the wrong impression of me, when it comes to playing it safe with pills I'm probably the safest guy around... and I'm not just saying that, you can ask any of the TA's that know me well (Heatscore, Jasymn, Mikman)... there are ways to play it safe, but 99% of people who dose don't use them... probably because they don't know about it...
I'm going to post something more indepth about the whole pill/safety issue tomorrow, it's too late right now... I've done my research on this topic along time ago, and there's a lot of stuff most people don't know... |
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| Fir3start3r |
Sorry Jazz,
I didn't mean to imply anything about you in person.
I was just creating a discussion, sorry bout that, I'll choose my words a little closer next time. :)
But at least we're on agreement RE: media ;)
I choose not watch/follow media like TV News and Newpapers and I haven't for about 7-8 years.
I will read articles from Time and such but most of the time, 'regular' news is way out of proportion.
I figure if it gets bad enough, someone will tell me, THEN I check to verify what I was told. :)
I look forward to the articles...:toothless |
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| Cyrus King |
| I know im going to get from this but.... Whats the point of taking the pill? Please give me a coherent answer as to how this pill or any drug is beneficial at all (other than getting pleasure out of hellucination). |
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| fantom |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
I know im going to get from this but.... Whats the point of taking the pill? Please give me a coherent answer as to how this pill or any drug is beneficial at all (other than getting pleasure out of hellucination). |
Well, it's all on some mental level, some higher state of concieousness... other than that, no point whatsoever...
But then again, what's the point of drinking, smoking, etc...? |
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| Jazz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arcticboy
OK, let me explain. The job of a journalist is not to act as a broadcaster for the police. If they're gonna publish a story, then they should do some research.
The point is, it is THEIR JOB to question and coroborate information, and at least give a half ass attempt at understanding what they're talking about and helping their readers also understand, rather than contribute to the blind ignorance already out there. |
Exactly, bang on... and about 90% of the time the media doesn't do this, and the Sun is the absolute WORST offender in Toronto... The cops will hand out a press release or something with a bunch of "facts" about ecstasy, pma, etc... and in most cases this is the only source of information used by a reporter when writing their story... I'm not saying that the information the cops distribute is wrong, but it is incomplete and biased. It's up to the reporter to dig deeper but they don't, probably partly because their lazy and partly because they only want to print information that scares people.
PMA is a very serious threat, definitely the most serious threat to ecstasy users along with DXM. There have been at least 10 cases of people dieing from PMA over the last few years. PMA is somewhat similar to ecstasy, they are both amphetamines, and they are manufactured using a similar process. Some drug labs are choosing to make PMA instead of MDMA (ecstasy) because it's easier to get the precursor ingredients, and because it's easier and cheaper to manufacture than MDMA.
The article is right about what PMA can do to you, "They added that PMA contains a chemical that raises the body temperature to as high as 42C, which fries the users' nervous systems and causes bleeding of the brain and internal organs."
But what the article doesn't mention is that you need a very high dose of PMA to cause this kind of reaction. In every reported PMA death that I've read about, the person took 4 or more PMA pills, in one case it was 7 I believe. And one of the most important things the article left out is that PMA takes a long time to start kicking in, sometimes up to 2 hours. So basically what happened in all of the PMA deaths was the person took a couple of pills, waited an hour, didn't feel anything, so took more thinking they were weak pills. Then by the time it started to kick in, it was too late.
Giving people this information could possibly save lives, but they don't. Instead they just tell people that there are these really dangerous pills out there called "Death", or "double stack mitsubishis" that contain PMA. First of all, I really doubt any dealer is using the name "Death" to sell any pills, and secondly there are tons of mitsubishi pills out there, people aren't going to know how to distinguish between them.
Before I ever started taking ecstasy, I heard all kinds of conflicting information from friends and the media. I remember hearing one media story that said ecstasy contained cocaine, heroin and speed!! what b.s. is that, it's obvious that reporter didn't do any research at all. So when I first took E I knew absolutely nothing. Literally the day after I dosed for the first time, I went on the Internet and started researching, for the main reason of knowing what the hell I had just put in my body and what the effects/consequences of it were. At first I just found basic information about being safe, like drink lots of water, don't get overheated, etc. etc.
A few weeks later I came across a website that offered an ecstasy testing kit, to help identify what chemical was actually in a pill. This is the same kind of testing kit that police use to test substances in the field when they arrest people. I ordered one and I have to say that it's probably the best $20 I've ever spent. It's saved me from a lot of crappy pills (speed) over the years, and provided protection against getting dangerous PMA and DMX pills. The funny thing is that over the past few years of partying, I have not met one person who knows that these testers exist, let alone actually having and using one. I think the reason nobody uses these testing kits is because nobody knows about them. If the media presented information about these testing kits in their articles about ecstasy, I bet a lot more people would be using them. But the media doesn't, because it's seen by the cops/government as "promoting drug use" which is absolute bulle...
Granted, there are some people who don't give a and just wouldn't be bothered to use a tester even if they knew about it. They're willing to play russian roulette and it's their choice, probably because the chances of actually getting a PMA or DMX pill is slim. Using a tester means that you have to buy your pills before hand (not at the club) so you can test them at home, but honestly you should be doing that anyway, but some people can't be bothered. Buying at a club from someone you don't know is extremely risky, there's a good chance you'll end up getting fake/crap pills or who knows what.
So, from my experience the best precautions you can use to stay safe are to get a testing kit, buy from a dealer you know outside of the club, and test your pills before taking them. But the Toronto Sun would never print something like that :) But this still doesn't guarantee absolute protection, any time you take drugs you're taking a risk, but at least if you use this type or risk reduction you have a lot better chance of being ok.
Anyways, here's some more info/links for people who want them:
Info on PMA: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pma/pma.shtml
Ecstasy Testing kits: http://www.eztest.com/
and: http://www.dancesafe.org/testingkits/ |
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| Mikman |
| Great post Jazz... Always nice to see info like this shared...;) |
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