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American Citizen Cyrus Kar suing Rumsfeld
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| Groundhog Boy |
The story in itself is just pathetic. Former Navy SEAL (which isn't mentioned in the story from "liberal" CNN) goes to Iraq, is in a cab where washing machine timers that are commonly used for IEDs are found in the trunk, gets arrested, cab driver admits in first interrogation that they're his, yet this guy is held and treated real well by his government's troops.
| quote: | U.S. filmmaker describes Iraq imprisonment
Cyrus Kar, an Iranian-American, traveled to Iraq in the middle of the war to shoot a documentary about Cyrus the Great, the Persian conqueror. But the Los Angeles-based filmmaker came back from Iraq with a very different story than the one he set out to tell.
A few days after arriving in Iraq, Kar got into a taxicab that was later stopped at a checkpoint and searched. Iraqi police found three dozen washing machine timers. Those, as you know, are widely used in Iraq to trigger IEDs or roadside bombs. Kar says he didn't know the timers were in the cab and that he has no idea how they got there. He says the cab driver later admitted they were his.
Kar was arrested by Iraqi Security Forces and then handed over to U.S. troops. Even though Kar showed his U.S. passport and his Navy veteran's card to the U.S. troops, he was still taken to the notorious Abu Ghraib prison and then to Camp Cropper, where he was thrown into solitary confinement for nearly two months. (Camp Cropper, by the way, that's the same prison where Saddam Hussein is being held) Kar told me American troops referred to him as the "American Terrorist" and nearly suffocated him by putting a hood over his head. Also, he says he was left to bake for hours in a cage in 120 degree heat.
Here is Kar's question: Why did it take the U.S. government and the FBI 55 days (53 of them in solitary) to figure out Kar was innocent? He is now suing U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other high-ranking military officials for violating his civil rights. It's the first case of its kind.
The Pentagon says Kar was "treated fairly and humanely in accord with the Geneva Convention." Kar begs to differ. |
The story itself is pretty bad, but the part that really pisses me off are the comments on the 360 blog. I used to be able to actually believe that the majority of Americans aren't as ing dumb and as big of s as the government they're under.
I hate terrorists. I hate that they kill people, but even more than that, I hate that these people have turned many normal, semi-logical individuals into completely defensive, paranoid ing idiots who would sell their mothers for a sliver of perceived safety.
Here's a sampling:
| quote: | Why does 360 constantly beat their drum of a liberal agenda? It's so obvious. If this isn't an isolated incident, please produce evidence of other such cases in connection with Iraq. People are falsely accused all the time in other realms. The justice system, although imperfect will prove his innocence. My guess is that this one person, being a "filmmaker" knows media type people, hence he's getting converage on the news. The minutiae of some of the stories here ("I had to wait 55 days" and "it was sooooo hot") is tedious and boring. Please, no offense Randi, but aren't there people suffering much greater indignities and injustices; aren't there people in life-or-death situations on which 360 can focus? Thank you.
Posted By xtina - Chicago IL : 5:08 PM ET |
| quote: | I really don't know what happened to this guy, but seriously could anyone pick a worse location/timeframe to film a a documentary about Cyrus the Great? Our troops and the Iraqi forces have enough to deal with, could the documentary not have waited? His story seems fishy, why would anyone want to go to Iraq to film something other than current events? Also, you might want to arrange better transportation in the future, i.e. not someone who is a taxi driver by day, and a terrorist by night.
Posted By Neil, Green Bay WI : 5:14 PM ET |
Does this guy know every taxi driver he has? Then again, being from Green Bay, he probably hasn't ever used a cab. I'd laugh if this same guy came to NYC and his cab was pulled over and drugs were found in the car and he was held for 55 days with a hood over his head.
| quote: | OK, I am a moron. I go to a country in the middle of a war without pre-registering in case something goes wrong. I get pulled over with IED triggers and suffer indignities for a couple of months before being let go. Now I want a big check, an apology from someone who, at best, was handed a sheet of paper with my name on it along side a notation "Got another one" and maybe some movie royalties. A few seats on talkshows would be nice, too. Maybe my attorney can make a name for himself while we are at it? Its good to be a moron ... in America!
Posted By Carl, Dallas, Texas : 10:21 AM ET |
| quote: | If someone in the United States was found in a vehicle with devices used for mass murder and released within 55 days, the family would be thankful for such an expedited release. The unfortunate experience alleged by this gentlemen reflects the horrific realities of war. War has never been a pretty picture, but I find it a very slippery slope to permit this suit. The next thing you know, if I am object to military operations, I could just go over to Country X where the U.S. is engaged in conflict, carry around something that smells of terrorist activity with a local, have the local claim they belong to his legitimate business operations (perhaps s/he conveniently repairs laundry machines), and then immediately sue the military.
Posted By Kevin, Columbia, MD : 10:24 AM ET |
Obviously this guy's never heard of bail, or access to an attorney.
| quote: | It is amazing what people will do for attention. 1) going to Iraq at this time to film a non-current event documentary? 2) being in the same car with devices used to kill Americans?
And then inflame the situation, by using the term cage instead of cell. Suing the Secretary of Defense? Why? because a filmmaker with Iranian ancestry expects immunity when found with timers used to kill Americans? He should have been arrested, and, if they cannot prove his guilt he should be released. He was. Many other "innocent" people have spent much longer in jail until they have been released. Fifty-five days is not long at all in comparison.
Would Mr. Kar rather have been in general population with the other terrorists? If I had been in the same situation, I would have preferred to be separated from those who are truly there to kill Americans.
And, in conclusion, he is in Iraq during a time of war and in a car carrying devices used to kill people...what civil rights is he really due? He is lucky to be alive.
Posted By Chris Patterson, San Diego, CA : 10:28 AM ET
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55 Days is not that long, and he's lucky to be alive :rolleyes:
And to answer the last question, the same civil rights every American deserves when held by American authorities?? Duh.
| quote: | Under normal circumstances, I would be saddened by this story. HOWEVER, there is nothing that happened to Kar that he didn't bring upon himself. He knew it was dangerous to visit Iraq. He knows that his US rights don't follow him to every corner of the world. He knew the risks. He could have just as easily been picked up by some very bad people and tortured or even killed. It's just like when people go out into the ocean and get bitten by a shark and then they want to announce to everyone how violated and injured they are. If you want to be treated like an American, then my suggestion is to stay in America.
Posted By Angela, Sterling, VA : 10:42 AM ET |
Yes, they don't follow you everywhere. If he were arrested in Singapore, I could see this argument. But he, a US citizen, was arrested and held by US troops
| quote: | Okay, Civilian went on his own accord to Iraq (War Zone) to film a documentary and gets caught with timers used for IEDs. Oh the horror to think he got stuck in Jail and in solitary confinement. Let's be realistic, why would you go to a warzone to film a documentary that has nothing to do with current events? Not only that, why didn't he coordinate with US Officials in Iraq (we do have an embassy you know). And now he wants to get paid for getting busted. There's too many holes in his story and it's a shame that some of you don't see it..
Posted By Jose, Middle TN : 10:53 AM ET |
Yes, he should have waited until after the war, but then again, he probably wanted to shoot the movie before he died, which will probably happen sooner than Iraq becomes civil again. With US troops there, he probably felt it should be safer to go there now than if we leave in the middle of their civil war, since he is an American and former soldier.
Obviously there are counterpoints made that reflect my opinions, but it's fairly 50/50 of people who blame him vs. people who think what happened to him is wrong. Source for everything quoted and counterpoints not posted are here - http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/and...ribes-iraq.html |
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| Clovis |
We have alot of stupid people in this country who would rather put blinders on than look at reality.
This is just one example...I mean look at some of the people post on youtube video comments and the like...you got Rumsfeld calling people who disagree with his war tactics "nazi appeasers" and alot of americans are probably agreeing with him. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
I hate terrorists. I hate that they kill people, but even more than that, I hate that these people have turned many normal, semi-logical individuals into completely defensive, paranoid ing idiots who would sell their mothers for a sliver of perceived safety.
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quoted for truth |
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| LiveTheDream |
| quote: | Originally by Benjamin Franklin
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. |
% of them belive what the US meadia tells them, they sheep that dont try and look at it from more then one viewpoint. As for the story itself, aboth quote is all ill put becoue i could go on all night about it. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
I hate terrorists. I hate that they kill people, but even more than that, I hate that these people have turned many normal, semi-logical individuals into completely defensive, paranoid ing idiots who would sell their mothers for a sliver of perceived safety. |
+ million
Hell yeah! |
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| Dervish |
I know this is going to be controversial but to play devils advocate....
How do you prove someone is innocent if you find them with incriminating evidence? You need to hold them until you can prove they are innocent. (now I know the presumtion of innocence and so on, but come on these were IED parts...in Iraq)
Yes he was a navy vet but who's to say he didn't leave it because he couldn't stand what was happening in Iraq?
In a perfect world it would have been reviewed quickly by a judge he'd have had a lawyer at all points etc. But he was in Iraq, which to be honest is in a bit of a state right now.
Even in the UK (rightly or wrongly) if you are thought to be a terroist you can be put in jail for 30 days I think it is and they are wanting to extend that to 90 days to allow investigatons to be carried out.
(all playing devils advocate) |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
I know this is going to be controversial but to play devils advocate....
How do you prove someone is innocent if you find them with incriminating evidence? You need to hold them until you can prove they are innocent. (now I know the presumtion of innocence and so on, but come on these were IED parts...in Iraq)
Yes he was a navy vet but who's to say he didn't leave it because he couldn't stand what was happening in Iraq?
In a perfect world it would have been reviewed quickly by a judge he'd have had a lawyer at all points etc. But he was in Iraq, which to be honest is in a bit of a state right now.
Even in the UK (rightly or wrongly) if you are thought to be a terroist you can be put in jail for 30 days I think it is and they are wanting to extend that to 90 days to allow investigatons to be carried out.
(all playing devils advocate) |
I understand you're playing devils advocate, but i don't think you're argument applies here. This is more of an issue of the treatment of the person, not that he was actually held. The issue is that because he is a US citizen he should have been treated as a US citizen, even if he was detained until further information surfaced. But he was not, he was dragged away, black bag over his head, into some unknown prison, and was not given the privileges his status as an American citizen assure he should get. I think you're argument would only be applicable if his rights had not been trampled on, as I'm sure none of us here disagrees with holding suspects until further investigation is done. |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
I know this is going to be controversial but to play devils advocate....
How do you prove someone is innocent if you find them with incriminating evidence? You need to hold them until you can prove they are innocent. (now I know the presumtion of innocence and so on, but come on these were IED parts...in Iraq)
Yes he was a navy vet but who's to say he didn't leave it because he couldn't stand what was happening in Iraq?
In a perfect world it would have been reviewed quickly by a judge he'd have had a lawyer at all points etc. But he was in Iraq, which to be honest is in a bit of a state right now.
Even in the UK (rightly or wrongly) if you are thought to be a terroist you can be put in jail for 30 days I think it is and they are wanting to extend that to 90 days to allow investigatons to be carried out.
(all playing devils advocate) |
I agree with dervish. It's called the legal system. I know some of you guys probably watch 'Law & Order' and believe that these cases only last a couple of days and then your hands are washed, but that's a tv show. In reality like the author of this article stated, he tells us what really goes on behind the scenes. More specicially the length of the legal process. He is spitting back to us first hand observations:
| quote: | | Suing the Secretary of Defense? Why? because a filmmaker with Iranian ancestry expects immunity when found with timers used to kill Americans? He should have been arrested, and, if they cannot prove his guilt he should be released. He was. Many other "innocent" people have spent much longer in jail until they have been released. Fifty-five days is not long at all in comparison. |
I wish I knew more about the law for terrorism violations. Then I could tell you about each and every step of the process from the arrest to the verdict, but I know what I'm saying is true for those of you who practice law. |
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