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"too many asians" (pg. 6)
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| Jayx1 |
STEREOTYPES:
Here is my break down on stereotypes.
Everyone steretypes everyone. It's a fact of life. When you see someone you automatically assess them based on how they look. We use a variety of factors to do this. Clothing style, race, hair style, hair colour, gender, overall appearance. It's just a natural human action. We do this because if we didnt our brains would overload trying to figure out the truth about every single person, item or situation presented to us daily. Without stereotyping we would not be able to function.
How do we come to these conclusions? Id say its based on perceived patterns of behaviour. For example in your experience all italian people you have met make great lasagna. Therefore whenever you meet someone who is italian you assume that they make great lasagna. Sometimes you may meet someone who is italian that may not make lasagna, but chances are they do. And when you talk to most italians they will probably be proud that they make the best italian lasagna in the world!
Now, what if most italians you meet have a back hair problem using the same example as above? Suddenly you are now a racist because "not all italians have a back hair problem". But what if most do? Why is it ok to generalize a truth in a good way but not in a bad way?
To me a stereotype is harmful not when you are generalizing a group of people, but when you use that generalization to stand int he way of meeting a true individual.
Lets put this into context of asian EDM clubbers. The majority of them are sketchy. And please remember im referring to EDM clubbers here because they make up a VERY SMALL percentage of toronto's asian community, 98% of which arent sketchy. But sadly there is a higher concentration of sketch asians than other races at toronto EDM clubs. I dont know why this is but its true. So when people refer to them generally as "sketch asians" they are probably right. But what people who say this need to be careful of is treating everyone who is asian at a club with contempt. Because at clubs with sketchy asians there are a lot of really cool and fun asian people who could end up being your next best friend, girlfriend etc. So if you were to let your generalization of asians at a club get in the way of personally meeting people then you lose in the end. Sure probably most people you meet will be sketchballs but a lot wont be.
And chiclet is right that s are s and race should not matter.
The point of my post here is to demostrate why stereotyping is not such a bad thing in general unless applied on an individual level. Generalizations about everything in this world are needed whether its in a positive or negative way.
NOTE: even within the asian community themselves there are steretypes about each other such as the CBCs, FOBs, Viet gangsters, hong kong vs mainlanders.. so i agree that stereotyping is not a trait owned by just white people. :) |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
STEREOTYPES:
Here is my break down on stereotypes.
Everyone steretypes everyone. It's a fact of life. When you see someone you automatically assess them based on how they look. We use a variety of factors to do this. Clothing style, race, hair style, hair colour, gender, overall appearance. It's just a natural human action. We do this because if we didnt our brains would overload trying to figure out the truth about every single person, item or situation presented to us daily. Without stereotyping we would not be able to function.
How do we come to these conclusions? Id say its based on perceived patterns of behaviour. For example in your experience all italian people you have met make great lasagna. Therefore whenever you meet someone who is italian you assume that they make great lasagna. Sometimes you may meet someone who is italian that may not make lasagna, but chances are they do. And when you talk to most italians they will probably be proud that they make the best italian lasagna in the world!
Now, what if most italians you meet have a back hair problem using the same example as above? Suddenly you are now a racist because "not all italians have a back hair problem". But what if most do? Why is it ok to generalize a truth in a good way but not in a bad way?
To me a stereotype is harmful not when you are generalizing a group of people, but when you use that generalization to stand int he way of meeting a true individual.
Lets put this into context of asian EDM clubbers. The majority of them are sketchy. And please remember im referring to EDM clubbers here because they make up a VERY SMALL percentage of toronto's asian community, 98% of which arent sketchy. But sadly there is a higher concentration of sketch asians than other races at toronto EDM clubs. I dont know why this is but its true. So when people refer to them generally as "sketch asians" they are probably right. But what people who say this need to be careful of is treating everyone who is asian at a club with contempt. Because at clubs with sketchy asians there are a lot of really cool and fun asian people who could end up being your next best friend, girlfriend etc. So if you were to let your generalization of asians at a club get in the way of personally meeting people then you lose in the end. Sure probably most people you meet will be sketchballs but a lot wont be.
And chiclet is right that s are s and race should not matter.
The point of my post here is to demostrate why stereotyping is not such a bad thing in general unless applied on an individual level. Generalizations about everything in this world are needed whether its in a positive or negative way.
NOTE: even within the asian community themselves there are steretypes about each other such as the CBCs, FOBs, Viet gangsters, hong kong vs mainlanders.. so i agree that stereotyping is not a trait owned by just white people. :) |
You ing said it Jay! You explained it exactly as I know and feel it to be, but would never take the time to put it out like that!
ing awesome man! Well said, and so very accurate of the situation and why humans use sterotypes in the first place... w/o them we could not exist and function as we do. |
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| Chiclet |
Hey Jay, I can see where you're coming from. Stereotypes exist in all forms. However, when I hear "too many asians" it can only be construed in a negative way.
The difference between using the term "gino" and the term "asian" is that a "gino" can take the gel out of his/her hair, dress a little better, act friendly, and learn to dance... and suddenly they're not a "gino" anymore. For an asian, they could go with a fluorescent mohawk and 10 facial piercings, yet they could still be lumped in as one of those "too many asians".
I know that tons of people use stereotypes to simplify things, but you can't get more general than an entire continent of people... lol. The reason I actually made a post about it here is not that I'm surprised that people use stereotypes, but that such a silly one would be used by some TAs, who are generally very nice people.
We can't change that people use stereotypes, but at least we can keep ourselves from spreading ignorance.
In the specific case of the EDM community, when talking about vibe, race does not play into it.
(I'd like to think I break a few stereotypes. For one, I'm very bad at math. :D) |
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| Orbitus |
| Wow, check out the brains on Jayx1....... Well said dude. |
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| Flec |
viva is a sketchy-asian magnet tho, and there really shouldnt be an argument involved with this, its the absolute truth
and if you wanna talk about those who go there that arent asian
well you have the TA crew (go us yay woot) who make appearences strictly for the big name djs who sometimes play there
and then you have the other non-asians who come (usually more regularly) who are also sketchytards/triad wannabees.
so the bottom line is that viva happens to have a pretty sketchy/old or young/gangstarish crowd that is mainly asian (due to location) however almost all of the non-asians who attend still fit into this category.
its a sketchy in place and thats the bottom line. without the soundsystem and lasers it would just be Comfort Zone: Markham |
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| Moral Hazard |
| If I recall the last Cracker General Meeting we white folk elected the Asians as our most prefered racial minority. Don't worry, that hasn't changed just because there are a lot of rude sketchy Asians at the clubs. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chiclet
Hey Jay, I can see where you're coming from. Stereotypes exist in all forms. However, when I hear "too many asians" it can only be construed in a negative way.
The difference between using the term "gino" and the term "asian" is that a "gino" can take the gel out of his/her hair, dress a little better, act friendly, and learn to dance... and suddenly they're not a "gino" anymore. For an asian, they could go with a fluorescent mohawk and 10 facial piercings, yet they could still be lumped in as one of those "too many asians". |
a lot of older italians are actually offended by the word gino and i have to explain to them that gino refers to a lifestyle rather than an ethnicity. If i saw asians outside of certain clubs i personally wouldnt automatically assume that they are sketchballs. Or if i saw asians at a hip hop club, same thing. But at the EDM clubs the majority of these asians in there act a certain way and its sad. I understand that since you dj and frequent the same places it must be frustrating that u are lumped in with that generalization. I personally hate being referred to as a "non christian, immoral white boy" by a certain person's parents but it's a sad fact of life. But if anything can be learned from this thread is that even if a generalization is generally true, you should still not let it interfere with your interaction of people. Had i let that generalization interfere with my personal behaviour, i would not have met you or annie.
| quote: | | I know that tons of people use stereotypes to simplify things, but you can't get more general than an entire continent of people... lol. The reason I actually made a post about it here is not that I'm surprised that people use stereotypes, but that such a silly one would be used by some TAs, who are generally very nice people. |
but as i said i dont think that people here who refer to asians at clubs would think twice if they saw asians out in the "real world".
| quote: | | We can't change that people use stereotypes, but at least we can keep ourselves from spreading ignorance. |
agreed.. and threads like this help. The more people communicate with each other the better understanding we can have. Most Canadians are usually too afraid to talk about such topics for fear of offending someone (a true steretype) which is why so many problems continue to fester. Only with direct open dialogue can we come to understand both the similarities and differences we possess.
| quote: | | In the specific case of the EDM community, when talking about vibe, race does not play into it. |
I disagree. A type of crowd at a club affects the vibe. And i can tell you that demographics are the #1 thing that club managers and owners look at when assessing what type of club they want to operate. It's amazing how much power you have over a crowd and its demographics when you control dress codes and music.
| quote: | | (I'd like to think I break a few stereotypes. For one, I'm very bad at math. :D) |
LOL!!!! |
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| Chiclet |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
Been to Viva several times, and had a good time for the most part. Most of them will look at you a little skewed at the begining, but if you approach people normally, they're nice and welcoming, for the most part.
I'm sure that whatever race, ethnicity, or group make comments about some other group, conversely that other group in all likelihood makes comments as well. I have never looked at race as an issue, or even something that should be noticed, and as such have hung out with many people of all backgrounds, and I've found that each and every group makes just as many prejudiced and racist comments as the next, be they white, black, asian, japanese, whatever...
I don't really like the direction of this thread, because it supports the stereotype that the most racist people always seem to be white, and this really irritates me. I'm Caucasian, and I've genuinely attempted to live my life bias-free. I've seen racism in forms people in North America won't really understand or comprehend, and I've come to consider it a personal fact that all races are equally guilty of it.
There is just one problem that I have with Viva...the security. They're a bunch of jerks, and usually for no reason. Further, they hardly actually provide security of any means. On three separate occasions I was there with some friends. When you go out the back (dunno if they still do this in winter) and outside into the 'smoking' section, there were some seriously aggressive people. They were in fact standing on the outside of the fence, but clearly they knew one or two of the bouncers, and were literally trying to pick fights and slander people that were comming outside. What did the bouncers do...sit back and laugh. F***ers. |
I am in no way suggesting that most racists tend to be white. Where did you get that from? :conf: I've heard racist crap from all shapes and colours of people.
I was saying that when s are of a certain colour (other than white) their race is often mentioned along with their assholiness. However, for some reason, if there are a bunch of s that are white, their race isn't mentioned. The question is why is it so important to mention the race, when you're talking about attitude?
We're not diagreeing on anything here.
I'm sorry you had a bad time at Viva. |
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| Chiclet |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flec
viva is a sketchy-asian magnet tho, and there really shouldnt be an argument involved with this, its the absolute truth
and if you wanna talk about those who go there that arent asian
well you have the TA crew (go us yay woot) who make appearences strictly for the big name djs who sometimes play there
and then you have the other non-asians who come (usually more regularly) who are also sketchytards/triad wannabees.
so the bottom line is that viva happens to have a pretty sketchy/old or young/gangstarish crowd that is mainly asian (due to location) however almost all of the non-asians who attend still fit into this category.
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They HAPPEN to be asian and their asianness does not define their assholiness.
We agree on that.
I have almond eyes and olive skin and I am one of the PLURriest, dancingest people in the entire EDM scene. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chiclet
I am in no way suggesting that most racists tend to be white. Where did you get that from? :conf: I've heard racist crap from all shapes and colours of people.
I was saying that when s are of a certain colour (other than white) their race is often mentioned along with their assholiness. However, for some reason, if there are a bunch of s that are white, their race isn't mentioned. The question is why is it so important to mention the race, when you're talking about attitude?
We're not diagreeing on anything here.
I'm sorry you had a bad time at Viva. |
i think this can be answered quite easily. Most people in canada are white. Therefore the most common type of person is white. So it is understood that a person being referred to is probably white unless otherwise mentioned.
For example i know for a fact that i was called kwai lo everywhere i went in hong kong (for those who dont know, kwai lo means ghost man)... Its because the fact that i wasnt chinese was a distinctive feature of my look. If there had been a group of us being sketchy im sure our behaviour would be assessed as "sketchy kwai lo" It's no different in canada where asians are the minority. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chiclet
I was saying that when s are of a certain colour (other than white) their race is often mentioned along with their assholiness. However, for some reason, if there are a bunch of s that are white, their race isn't mentioned. The question is why is it so important to mention the race, when you're talking about attitude?
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I think it has more to do with ease of identification rather then overt racism. In a nation where the majority of inhabitants are white it becomes easier to identify someone who is not by connecting their race with other discriptors. For instance.... I could say "Just go talk to that guy over there staring at the booth like a zombie." when someone asks me for pills, however, as there may be a bunch of crackheads with blank faces it becomes unclear who I'm talking about. If I say "go talk to the 50 y/o sketchy Asian" it narrows the field quite a bit. |
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| Chiclet |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
I disagree. A type of crowd at a club affects the vibe. And i can tell you that demographics are the #1 thing that club managers and owners look at when assessing what type of club they want to operate. It's amazing how much power you have over a crowd and its demographics when you control dress codes and music.
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See, but skin colour does not a demographic make. Culture, product preference, dress, language, etc... does. I'm talking specifically about race. What I'm getting at is that demographics, attitude, and skin colour are not always fully mutually inclusive... even in the EDM community. And with statements like "too many asians" some people might feel encouraged to consciously or unconsciously, avoid asian people at clubs simply for the fact that they're asian.
(that sucks about that cetain comesone's parents!) |
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