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Inside the World's First "Creationist" Museum (pg. 2)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
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The museum's research scientist, Dr Jason Lisle, has a PhD in astrophysics from the University of Colorado at Boulder. He realised he was a Christian while he was an undergraduate, but didn't spread it around: "People get very emotional about the issue. I don't believe we should ever be obnoxious about our faith. I just kept quiet." And how did he pass the exams? "I never lied, but if I was asked a question about the age of the universe, I answered from my knowledge of the topic, not my beliefs." |
these turn-coats are the worst! :haha: |
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| Krypton |
| It creates debate, I support it. I find it funny they chose Kentucky. I actually saw Ken Hamm speak on several occasions while I was in Louisville. In fact, what sparked my interest in the evolution/creation debate was seeing Ken Hamm speak. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
It creates debate, I support it. I find it funny they chose Kentucky. I actually saw Ken Hamm speak on several occasions while I was in Louisville. In fact, what sparked my interest in the evolution/creation debate was seeing Ken Hamm speak. |
what kind of debate can the blind leading the gullible engender? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | | Now, we are taken to meet Ken Ham, the museum's director and its inspiration. Ham is an Australian, a former science teacher - though not, he is at pains to say, a scientist - and he has been working on the project for much of the past 20 years since moving to the US. "You'd never find something like this in Australia," he says. "If you want to get the message out, it has to be here." |
That's because you've be heckled on the street, the press would make fun of you and generally mocked and laughed at for being silly.
When I think of my science teachers in high school, most struck me as being the kind of people frustrated with their lot in life because they didnt stick around uni long enough too get a proper science degree and move into something useful like engineering.
It either takes a saint or someone truly demented too put up with kids on a daily basis, especially seeing as it's illegal too beat them into some sense of social responsibility. |
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| Krypton |
| For evangelicals; if the book of Genesis weren't absolutely true as they believe, then the entire Bible's legitamacy would be in question. It's interesting how the Bible is relied upon for historical, and archeological research, but the very first chapters of genesis are questioned, as they should be. I also find it interesting how the Bible starts off at the very creation of earth, and just continues on in chronological order, as if genesis weren't even the beginning of the entire story. That's what makes genesis strange to me. |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
For evangelicals; if the book of Genesis weren't absolutely true as they believe, then the entire Bible's legitamacy would be in question. It's interesting how the Bible is relied upon for historical, and archeological research, but the very first chapters of genesis are questioned, as they should be. I also find it interesting how the Bible starts off at the very creation of earth, and just continues on in chronological order, as if genesis weren't even the beginning of the entire story. That's what makes genesis strange to me. |
Why is it strange that it starts with the creation of earth? The bible is earthcentric (don't know if that's the right word). Everything in the bible revolves around man, the earth and God, there is no dealing with the stars and space. It is coherent with the views of the universe that people held when the book of genesis was written, remember that the bible was after all written by men for men. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
This "creationist" thing tha goes on in some states is very interesting as a social ideology and phenomenon in general. I'm really overwhelmed. These people seem to doubt the very core of biological science...mutation and evolution. How can they not see the evidence?
Evidence from evolution at work can be found at all levels, from molecular/biochemical to real-time microbiological (HIV virus) up to the vast palaentologic fossil and workings of ecosystems. Despite that overwhelming evidence these kind of "extreme" christians are totally blinded by their own extreme view of god.
How come? What does this phenomenon demonstrate? I think its because some societies have become very chaotic, fearfull and unpredictable for the people that occupy them. These scared individuals seem to somehow find shelter in an extreme "old medieval" view of relligion were everything is in order by the one and only god. This is good for them. it alleviates the innate stress of an unpredictable future where terrorists reign and bomb innocents, conspiracies happen daily behind peoples backs,science has become strange,alien and difficult,goverments speak lies and the churches themeselves with their more "softer" edition of christianity have become corrupted and "evil".
As a result,the only sanctuary and medicine for some people (especially the less educated i guess)is god, the one and only, true god who created adam and eve and all the animals in seven days.They get such peace from this belief that they are ready to fight for it, to doubt everything, to turn their back at science, even to doubt i guess their own common-sense and basic logic.
And its really crazy because deep inside there is no need forall this. From what i have red, the Biblical Hebrew word for "day" has an equal meaning with "period" in general. If you choose to believe to a god, there is really no need to destroy all the achievements that were gained through aeons of creative thinking and self-sacrifincing research (from Aristotle's naturalistic philosphy to Darwin's evolution),which in turn describe the workings of our cosmos with such detail. God exists? Fair enough, he may be the one who started the big-bang that happened 20 billion years ago, he may be the one who gave to the particles their specific masses, he may have "tuned" the whole procedure so as to unavoidably lead to life and maybe intelligence.But he is NOT the one who made the humans form soil!
Science is there to answer the "what". God is there to answer the "why". Fanaticism has no place in this. |
Repetitive propaganda for their entire lives is what causes it.
It is most likely an intangible psychological virus, spread from person to person through all the wrong emotions (fear, etc), and the virus sustains itself in two ways:
1. Justifying itself (in this case, "God wants you to believe in God" LOL)
2. Barricading and ignoring potential information that could damage the virus itself (evolution, etc.), in this case done by the church which trickles down into the social day-to-day and just simply becomes ingrained.
If you get them young enough, their minds most likely won't ever allow itself to put together enough outside information other than what they "know", thus you've got people who are mentally damaged.
The solution is probably education and awareness. Both, together.. that's the problem.
Today, I was at Home Depot and I overheard some old lady talking to a fellow in their raggedy ass meth-lab red-neck pickup truck. She was talking about how God's word is for him (whoever him was) to acknowledge his sin.
Don't know what she could've been talking about, don't care. The ed up thing is that she was sitting in the home depot parking lot at 10am preaching about God...
Yeah...... mentally damaged. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Our country's leader got elected twice now by pandering to these very same people and convinced them that "he's one of them." |
That's funny, I think I recall him being elected by 7 "activist judges" :haha:
Kidding.. I hear what you're saying and it's sad but true. |
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| Renegade |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
From what i have red, the Biblical Hebrew word for "day" has an equal meaning with "period" in general. |
I've seen this apologetic used before, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. The Hebrew word used is "Yom" which usually, without any other signifiers, refers to a 24 hour period (hence "Yom Kippur" - the day of atonements - which lasts for a single day, not an indefinite period of time). It can be used to signify a general passage of time (much like we would use the phrase "as the days passed...", I guess) but other parts of the Bible tell us that this was certainly not the case in Genesis. The existence of the Sabbath, for instance, is justified in Exodus (by the same authors who penned Genesis 1:1 - 2:4 - the Elohists) on the basis that God rested on the seventh day and that therefore we are to do the same.
(EDIT: Actually, I'd be interested to hear what Hebrew speakers have to say about this. Psy-T? Anyone?)
In any case, this is all irrelevent seeing as the order of creation depicted in the Bible is completely at odds with what we know to be true anyway. Even if "Yom" really was referring to an unspecified "period of time", it's less easy to explain - as a literalist - why the existence of light on Earth (1:3) should precede the existence of the sun (1:16).
| quote: | | Science is there to answer the "what". God is there to answer the "why". |
Really.
What "why" question does God answer, exactly? |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | | What "why" question does God answer, exactly? |
The concept of "God" is an easy answer to "why" there is something and not nothing. Maybe it's just a good cheap excuse on "why" everything exists.
The opposite current view of science,namely cosmology, that the universe exists because of a "mulltiple universes Copernican reality" (that is an infinite number of possible universes could lead to a certain probability that some or even, one of them would be fine-tuned for life),is equally not satisfying though. As one physicist stated in a recent issue of "New Scientist" "the probabilistic view of creation brings to mind that old lady in the cosmology lecture-theatre who has responded in despair when she heard the lecturer saying about the earth orbiting the sun: "Bollocks, the Earth does not orbit the sun. the earth stands on the back of a giant turtle. the lecturer found it very funny and ironically asked. Oh really? And where does this turtle stands on? The woman replied: Are you stupid?In another turtle ofcourse!You get the picture...there is an infinite number of turtles all the way...!
As a result it remains to be seen if science someday answers deep philosophical questions on the purpose (if there is a purpose)of existence and not just provide us with (detailed the tuth is) descriptions of the "workings" of the cosmos. I'm on the "empirical" side as well, but i'm always sceptical about everything...even the power and limitations of science. |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
The concept of "God" is an easy answer to "why" there is something and not nothing. Maybe it's just a good cheap excuse on "why" everything exists.
The opposite current view of science,namely cosmology, that the universe exists because of a "mulltiple universes Copernican reality" (that is an infinite number of possible universes could lead to a certain probability that some or even, one of them would be fine-tuned for life),is equally not satisfying though. As one physicist stated in a recent issue of "New Scientist" "the probabilistic view of creation brings to mind that old lady in the cosmology lecture-theatre who has responded in despair when she heard the lecturer saying about the earth orbiting the sun: "Bollocks, the Earth does not orbit the sun. the earth stands on the back of a giant turtle. the lecturer found it very funny and ironically asked. Oh really? And where does this turtle stands on? The woman replied: Are you stupid?In another turtle ofcourse!You get the picture...there is an infinite number of turtles all the way...!
As a result it remains to be seen if science someday answers deep philosophical questions on the purpose (if there is a purpose)of existence and not just provide us with (detailed the tuth is) descriptions of the "workings" of the cosmos. I'm on the "empirical" side as well, but i'm always sceptical about everything...even the power and limitations of science. |
Well science would answer deep questions if it had been design for those purposes, but it's not. Science is not meant to answer existentialist questions, it's only there to help us understand how things work, not why things exist. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
Let me reiterate that I am so glad I live in Europe. For the most part we don't have nutjubs like this running around freely instead of being lucked up safely in an asylum. And those that are, are mostly centred in a small area (and unlike the nutjubs in the US they are without guns) so if the revolution ever comes they will be taken care of swiftly. |
much respect Moongoose,,,
but, as I tell allot of my people that I hear say the same thing and they are American, I would rather live in a country that would allow this, cause to a point its freedom of speech, religion and even the old liberty and the pursuit of happiness to think and run something like this. If in your country such an "idiot" would be locked up, then that is sad. ;) if the guy is not hurting anyone then hey, "knock yourself out and be happy". |
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