|
Delay/Reverb as on insert?
|
View this Thread in Original format
| DJREMIDI |
While I'm posting stuff...
Why is it that most articles I've read about effects usage claim that the only reason to use effects such as delays and reverbs on AUX'es is to conserve CPU power? The way the signal is being processed in both instance is completely different.
When using a delay or reverb on AUX'es you send a portion of the dry signal to the AUX buss and then the effected signal is combined with the original signal.
When using a delay or reverb on the insert, assuming your plug-in has a Dry/Wet control, the said control will simply serve as a balance between the affected and unaffected signal.
So let's say you want a sound with a lot of delay on it; if you set-up your delay on the AUX buss, you can just increase the Send level to 100%; now if you set-up your delay on an insert and then increase the Dry/Wet control to 100% you'll end up with just the affected signal - the delay effect itself and no original signal present. In most situations this is not the sound you would be attempting to achieve.
What do you think? How do you use your Delays and Reverbs? |
|
|
| 4am |
| I don't use them on Sends very often. Because I like to use different settings for different instruments. |
|
|
| No Left Turn |
Sending 100% to an aux buss is the equivalent to a 50/50 dry/wet mix as an insert. 1005 to the aux gives you equal original signal and affected signal... just like a 50/50 mix. See the correlation there?
And yes, using a TBP (time-based processor) as an aux send does save CPU since you can use it for literally every track, but sometimes a guitar/lead/vocal might need a different delay or needs a reverb with a less drastic dry/wet mix, anything else really. That's where the insert comes in. |
|
|
| DJREMIDI |
So 50/50 on the insert is the same as 100% on the aux buss? I just tried this and the volume output is much lower with the delay on the insert. Also, the effect is not as pronounced.
With the delay on the aux buss, volume output is closer to the dry signal's output.
Still good to know, 50/50 on the insert = 100% on the aux buss. |
|
|
| DigiNut |
The way they're being processed in most cases is exactly the same - there may be some reverb plugins that are different but I haven't seen them. Most of the time these plugins are just adding a signal on top of the original signal - that's what reverb is! So you can always get the same effect using the sidechain as you can with the main signal path.
Delays can sometimes be different, but again, usually aren't. Sometimes I'll use a plugin like PSP84 and cut out all of the dry entirely, but those cases are few and far between. And even if I wanted only 20% dry, that would still be easily achievable with a send effect that's set louder in the mix than the original track - if I need to send over 0 dB, I just send to a group channel first, pump up that group, and resend it to the effect track.
If your only indication of whether or not something sounds different is the volume, then you're doing it wrong; you ought to be able to tell if two sounds playing at different volumes are in fact the same sound. Using an effect as an insert generally will not sound as loud as a send effect, because inserts reduce the dry amount going out (as stated earlier, something like a 50/50 dry/wet ratio is common, reverbs might be closer to 80/20), whereas a send effect is giving you 100% dry and however much "wet" you choose to make - assuming you set the send effect itself to be 100% wet, otherwise your output is going to end up as even more than 100% dry.
That's kind of confusing but I really don't have the patience right now to clean it up, so take it or leave it. :p
P.S. Using an effect as an insert with 50/50 ratio, and using it as a send with a 0/100 ratio will produce the same sound, but at different volumes! |
|
|
| DJREMIDI |
Thanks for clarifying that Digi!
UPDATE:
Just tried this out again. It's actually working out pretty well, some of the sounds I have are too loud to begin with, so adding a delay as an insert attenuated the volume without me having to adjust the fader. This is also going to be very convenient in the long run since I often use different delay settings for different instruments; now instead of having 16 FX busses, I'll just have delays inserted on individual channels. Thanks everyone!
Random comment: I just love the built-in spell check for text fields in Firefox 2! :D |
|
|
| aquila |
| Personally I just see it as two ways to skin a cat. I usually only ever use an insert if I want the fx to dominate the signal. |
|
|
| DJREMIDI |
| Thanks for all your input! |
|
|
| djkoso |
Hello mate.
I use Delay and Reverb on AUX, SENDS
Delay on Aux to effect some stereo "pim-pom" on intruments.. in overall sounds in track
Reverb on Aux to add some atmosphere in track,something like "yshh, oshh etc"
example
Pads >30%AUX
Main lead > 10-15%AUX
etc. etc..
and i dont must use this delay's, reverbs in instrument track, because i have some fx in synths.
ofcourse this is good to CPU but sometimes if you create new track you go to scheme in TRACK, AUX in your mixer, and this is good/bad ...
all the best.
ConraD S. |
|
|
|
|
