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morons and catholicism
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
i mean seriously :mad:
| quote: |
SEXUALLY-assaulted women who seek help at Catholic-controlled hospitals cannot be referred to rape crisis centres that supply morning-after pills, under church policy.
The policy, spelt out in an 80-page ethics document, has heightened concerns among doctors and rape counsellors about the Catholic Church's growing control of hospitals.
And The Australian reveals today that another fertility centre has been told to move out by the Catholic buyers of the hospital where it is based. One prominent doctor said she had long been concerned at the church's rape policy, which is contained in an ethics document approved by the Catholic hierarchy in 2001.
The Code of Ethical Standards, compiled by Catholic Health Australia, says direct referral of raped women to centres that offer the morning-after pill "should only occur if reasonable steps have been taken to exclude the likelihood of pregnancy".
Senior Catholic spokesmen defended the policy as a logical and ethical extension of the church's opposition to the morning-after pill, which it considers morally no different to abortion. But Melbourne GP and medical broadcaster Sally Cockburn said she was "blown out of the water" when she read the policy.
"If this is the way their staff are mandated to behave, then I don't believe rape victims should be taken to their hospitals at all," Dr Cockburn said.
"They have no right to make us follow their point of view, and if they're going to be taking over more hospitals, I'm concerned."
Karen Willis, of the NSW Rape Crisis Centre, said it was standard practice for a raped woman to be offered the morning-after pill, if there was a real risk of her becoming pregnant with her attacker's child. "To not offer someone the morning-after pill would be negligence as far as we are concerned," she said.
Catholic-controlled health organisations control more than 70 hospitals in Australia - and added one more this week, the Wesley Hospital in Townsville.
The buy-out by the rival Catholic Mater Misericordiae Hospital is subject to approval by competition regulators. But the Queensland Fertility Group, which offers in-vitro fertilisation and other fertility treatments at the site, confirmed yesterday it had already been told it must find new premises elsewhere. Catholic doctrine is opposed to IVF.
QFG Townsville director Ron Chang said the forced relocation was annoying, but predicted it would not interrupt services.
The Australian revealed on Tuesday that Canberra's John James Hospital - bought in October by a Catholic-controlled organisation - had begun withdrawing services to the Canberra Fertility Centre, which was based on its premises.
Catholic Health Australia chief Francis Sullivan said that as well as private hospitals, Catholic organisations ran 21 public hospitals around the nation that would also have to follow the ethics policy.
Mr Sullivan said health workers in Catholic hospitals "are not prevented from giving information" about abortion, the morning-after pill or any other treatment.
"The only restriction would be that the staff are not permitted to directly refer women to abortion services," he said.
Catholic health ethics spokesman Bishop Anthony Fisher said the ban was a logical extension of the church's position on use of the morning-after pill. |
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,2359...473-421,00.html
"we'll help you, but only if we can help you our way and you do things according to our antiquated bellief system". ing arseholes. |
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| tubby |
| this is the same church that thinks their merciful god would rather see millions die of aids than promote the use of condoms. |
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| DJ_Ballistic |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubby
this is the same church that thinks their merciful god would rather see millions die of aids than promote the use of condoms. |
so who do u think are the morons in this case...the catholic church, or the people who don't use condoms just because someone else told them not to |
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| tubby |
| of course the morons are the poor uneducated people who follow the teachings of their church because they do not know any better. |
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| Aesthetic |
| not everybody who follows the teachings of a church is a moron |
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| DJ_Ballistic |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubby
Of course the morons are the poor uneducated people who follow the teachings of their church because they do not know any better. |
you mean the uneducated people in 3rd world countries such as africa the church are educating on the dangers of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
Yes the use of condoms in places such as those would probably stem the flow of aids transmission, however in most cases they arent the only people helping those people and as far as i know they dont stop anyone else bringing condoms into those places...
Until you can say you're doing more to thelp those people than the church is, you might wanna leave off criticising them |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aesthetic
not everybody who follows the teachings of a church is a moron |
oh, that wasnt what i meant by the thread title. just that these particular catholics are sticking their nose into social problems and refusing particular treatments to people based upon their religious (not medical) training. which just isn't right.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Ballistic
Until you can say you're doing more to thelp those people than the church is, you might wanna leave off criticising them |
how bout if you're doing less damage? can you criticise then? ;) |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Ballistic
Until you can say you're doing more to thelp those people than the church is, you might wanna leave off criticising them |
By that logic watching people throw petrol on a fire trying to fight it is also wrong but until we're contributing more to the firefighting effort ourselves we'll leave off criticising them. |
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| DJ_Ballistic |
maybe you don't understand why the catholic church opposes condoms....because they believe in abstaining from sex until married
so im pretty sure they're not just telling these people not to wear condoms, but to also not have sex
Therefore by tubby's logic if people are just doing as they are taught and not using condoms coz the church is against it, then they are not having sex period and thus also not spreading aids. So i don't get how you liken that to petrol fires. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: |
Tomorrow's BBC Panorama programme carries an interview with a Catholic woman in Uganda who has chosen to sleep unprotected with her infected husband: "We won't go to heaven if we use condoms," she explains. Asked if the woman made the right choice, the Archbishop of Kampala, Cardinal Emmanuel Wamala, replies: "If it is wrong to use the condom, then she has made the right choice." Even if it costs her her life? "Yes," replies the cardinal. "That is a harsh teaching," the reporter responds. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/s...1247745,00.html
in any case, churches arent very good at preventing "immoral" behaviour. people's "vices" will almost always over rule the teachings of some moral authority. by denouncing condom usage the church creates an environment where condoms arent as available.
| quote: |
By its refusal to deal with human realities, the church has muffled its own prophetic voice on Aids, and encouraged the conclusion that Christian teaching that can only be upheld at the cost of African lives does not deserve that name. |
and in any case, is anyone going to discuss the original post? what do people think about the church with policies like this?
| quote: | | SEXUALLY-assaulted women who seek help at Catholic-controlled hospitals cannot be referred to rape crisis centres that supply morning-after pills, under church policy. |
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| tubby |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Ballistic
maybe you don't understand why the catholic church opposes condoms....because they believe in abstaining from sex until married
so im pretty sure they're not just telling these people not to wear condoms, but to also not have sex
Therefore by tubby's logic if people are just doing as they are taught and not using condoms coz the church is against it, then they are not having sex period and thus also not spreading aids. So i don't get how you liken that to petrol fires. |
catholic church is against all forms of birth control, whether married or not. with 40+% infection rates, it is well out of control, and for the church to try to prevent one of the most useful methods of preventing transmission is just irresponsible.
Do you really think this merciful god thinks that this is better than birth control? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Ballistic
Therefore by tubby's logic if people are just doing as they are taught and not using condoms coz the church is against it, then they are not having sex period and thus also not spreading aids. So i don't get how you liken that to petrol fires. |
This isn't about AIDS control, its about unwanted pregnancies due to sexual assault.
Something that isn't a volantary act or something the church endorses either
Pull your head out of lala land about AIDS, premarital sex, god and the bible and get with the argument, how can that be any more clear?
Really! :rolleyes:
At it's simplest, its a gross neglect of someone who'll once the shock wears off will be in some kind of traumatised state, possibly pregnant and here comes the church medic, pat on the head, bandaid and out the door.
Carrying something like that to term will ruin a persons life, they'll hate the kid as a reminder of what happened to them and I think if forced to do the same, I'd probably off myself and thats not something I say lightly. |
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