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Understanding compressor settings (pg. 2)
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| mysticalninja |
you should.
it goes from
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| 3rd Signal |
Sorry for bursting in like this to the thread but I need to clear up something. I want to be sure that I know exectly how a compressor works. So... Tell me if I'm right and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Attack - the delay before the compressor starts to apply his other settings to the sound.
Release - the ammount of time, after the attack, till the compressor will stop reducing the kick's gain.
Now, about the 'Make Up, 'Gain', 'Threshold', 'Ratio' and etc' I'm not quite sure. Can you guys please explain 'which means what' and how does it apply on the sound as a chain (Attack -> to -> ? -> to -> Release and so on...).
Thanks. |
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| kitphillips |
Heh, well someone mentioned compression, I got set for a flame war:whip: Re your question 3rd signal, compressor settings dont really work in a signal chain as such... I guess it sorta goes like
input gain >> thresh >> ratio >> make up/ output gain
Input gain is basically similar to threshhold, their proportional so if you raise the input gain, raise the threshhold and vice versa. You dont usually find both on the one compressor. Ratio- ok this is the most complicated, this is how much the compressor will clamp the sound for a given signal, that is how "much" compression you get. A bit like a mix control is maybe the analogy? Maybe not? Make up and output gain, are again the same thing, if you have the thing compressed, your usually doing it to even out the transients so the track can be made louder on its main slider. Output gain just basically feeds more signal into the mixer to compensate for the volume it took off in clamping off the signal.
Do what sounds right, compression does make most sounds more punchy (I find it doesnt work on 808 or 909s and some other things). Dont worry about the release too much, attack is more important. The release will only start to apply once the signal has dipped down below the threshhold anyway, so its a bit irrelevant for drums as they're really transient. release is more relevant I understand for strings etc. A quick release I believe is better, but I'm not sure.
The way I learnt compression was on the ones with a picture of that they're F***King doing, its the only way you'll understand all their bloody knobs. Just get one like waves C1 or something and play with the settings and watch what happens to the picture, its not that hard! |
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| Freak |
| quote: | Originally posted by 3rd Signal
Sorry for bursting in like this to the thread but I need to clear up something. I want to be sure that I know exectly how a compressor works. So... Tell me if I'm right and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Attack - the delay before the compressor starts to apply his other settings to the sound.
Release - the ammount of time, after the attack, till the compressor will stop reducing the kick's gain.
Now, about the 'Make Up, 'Gain', 'Threshold', 'Ratio' and etc' I'm not quite sure. Can you guys please explain 'which means what' and how does it apply on the sound as a chain (Attack -> to -> ? -> to -> Release and so on...).
Thanks. |
Attack- how quickly the compressor acts on the signal
release- how quickly it releases the signal
threshold- sets at what point the compressor starts to work.
ratio- how much compression you want. the higher the number the more severe the compression.
Make up gain- when you compress something, it can often reduce the signal level. Make up gain is there so you can boost the volume of the now compressed signal back up to what it was at the input.
Side chain/key input- enables you to trigger the compressor/gate with an external signal. (NOT just used for ing bass and drums in house tracks- plenty of uses for it in all sorts of music)
Gate - shuts off the signal (think of the signal as a cow in a field- You shut the gate, no more cows can escape) depending ont he threshold and attack/release you set.
You can do some pretty nice tricks with compressors (not sure about software ones- rarely use them so don't know how set in stone the routing is tbh). Abuse the settings and get some crazy sounds- can get drums sounding tighter than a nuns crotch or sucking like a highly paid whore if you experiment a bit. |
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| 3rd Signal |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Just get one like waves C1 or something and play with the settings and watch what happens to the picture, its not that hard! |
I got C1, I love it.
Don't get me wrong though, I know how to compress, but I do it by ear. Now I want to know what means what since I'm not so sure.
@ Freak -
I didn't get the 'Gate' part. How does it effect the sound?
Thanks much. |
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| Freak |
| quote: | Originally posted by 3rd Signal
@ Freak -
I didn't get the 'Gate' part. How does it effect the sound?
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It stops it.
gate closed=no signal
gate open=signal
Most hardware comps have a gate built in |
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| kitphillips |
| Yeh, I didnt think you were the sort of person to not understand compression:D Gate is something which you use when you have a noisy signal, it cuts out all signal under a certain level, its often thrown on the same plugin as compressors, but it actually does the opposite thing. Of course gate isnt just used for cutting out hum and noise, you can also use it to get a heavier, tighter guitar sound, tighter drums sounds, pluckyer pads, whatever, you get the picture. I didnt understand the metaphor about cows at all:haha: |
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| 3rd Signal |
Doh... lol.
So I gate compressor basicly stops all the the sound above the threshold from being heard?
-Edit-
I see, thanks for the explaination!
hmm, would love for a quick guide on that C1 Gate of someone got or can explain (how to make sounds tighter that is). |
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| mysticalninja |
| it stops all sound below the threshold from being heard. c1 gate comes with a PDF manual, so read it. to make drums tighters use a fast release and even faster attack and set threshold |
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| Enigmatic XTC |
| quote: | Originally posted by CReddick
opposite with the release... start with a large value.. and bring it in so the gain reduction gets back to zero before the next kick.
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I do this the opposite way. I like to set my release to the shortest time possible and then increase it just until the pumping sound is gone. This gives me more volume and, dare i say, "punch" than doing it just until the gr gets back to zero. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
i think most big producers will agree its rare to use a kick without compressing it at all.. the punch in the kick is really important.
most samples you get are either raw from drum machines or drum kits (i.e. not enough dynamics for dance music) or off other records (i.e. already limited so lacking in dynamics)
if you think some people are using 9db or more gain reduction in limiting and compression on their masters, and the kick's the most prominant element, that means the kick they've used might have as much as 5-9db's of attack above the body of the sound - where a sampled kick is usually squashed right down
so it's actually quite rare you can even get hold of a kick or snare which doesn't require some degree of dynamics processing just to get it working properly |
Alright, seriously, retard hour is over now.
1. You aren't qualified to speak for most or any "big producers", so don't.
2. Compression limits dynamics, it does not add dynamics. Yes, you can use one as an expander, but that is completely irrelevant to anything said in this thread.
3. Very few kick samples used today come raw from a drum machine. I doubt very much if a single sample on any popular sample pack comes directly from a drum machine without processing. I know that you believe they're all sampled from other records, but I'll tell you again like so many others have told you, you're full of .
4. Nobody compresses or limits 9 dB out of a master track. That's insane, and would sound like utter . Even a kick doesn't get squashed that far, otherwise it will have a very long tail that sounds brutal, even in trance.
5. What could you possibly mean by the "body" of a sound in a kick? The entire sound is essentially a thump with a very quick falling amplitude envelope. Any other shape, and it's not really much of a kick now is it?
6. I never said that kicks, snares, or any other samples don't require processing or compression. Most of the time they do. I just said that compression has nothing to do with the "punchiness" of a kick, and it doesn't. As jex pointed out, that's done with EQ and specifically the falling pitch envelope on some element of the kick. Play your punchiest kicks a few times and you'll hear that pitch bend - it's got nothing to do with compression.
7. Given the shape of a kick, compression helps make the peak longer. This in effect makes it sound "bigger". That is the only really useful thing you can do to a kick with a compressor, and using a release that's equal to or greater than the length of the entire kick will almost completely negate this effect.
Are we done yet? |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | | 3. Very few kick samples used today come raw from a drum machine. I doubt very much if a single sample on any popular sample pack comes directly from a drum machine without processing. |
that's not what i meant, i'm talking about where they originated. lots of people have used raw drum samples processed.
| quote: | | 5. What could you possibly mean by the "body" of a sound in a kick? The entire sound is essentially a thump with a very quick falling amplitude envelope. Any other shape, and it's not really much of a kick now is it? |
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typical, weedy drum sound - great transient dynamics, but flattened body with most of the weight lost
the danger with compression alone is that it can work wonders on the attack transient, but suck energy out of the body of the sound - so use parallel compression use the first compressor like an expander, then compress, and you avoid this
Before Compression.
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After Compression.
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add compression with longish attack to emphasize attack transient a little more
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notice medium release, pull-off effect, and if you look at quite engineered bassdrums and snares, there's often quite complex dynamics like that
your right though eq is much more important for a nice punchy kick, punch is really around 80-100hz range i believe. |
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