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Where can one acquire an ID in so cal? Echo Park in LA (pg. 3)
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| skizzell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Or we could just make the drinking age 18 like in the rest of the civilised world... |
Do you think the rest of the civilized world has nearly as many DUI-related fatalities as us? Can you imagine how many more accidents and fatalities we would have if the youngins could casually go out to a bar at 18, like the rest of us? After all, this 'civilized country' is the motor-capital of the world. Imagine the consequences.
I agree that it's terrible to think that you can shed blood for your country at age 18 by serving in the military, but you can't drink. It doesn't make much sense. But at least speaking for Californians, I'd much rather keep the roads just a little safer, even if that means imposing higher age restrictions for alcohol. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by skizzell
Do you think the rest of the civilized world has nearly as many DUI-related fatalities as us? Can you imagine how many more accidents and fatalities we would have if the youngins could casually go out to a bar at 18, like the rest of us? After all, this 'civilized country' is the motor-capital of the world. Imagine the consequences.
I agree that it's terrible to think that you can shed blood for your country at age 18 by serving in the military, but you can't drink. It doesn't make much sense. But at least speaking for Californians, I'd much rather keep the roads just a little safer, even if that means imposing higher age restrictions for alcohol. |
Yeah because all drunk driving accidents in this state are by people over 21. :stongue: |
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| skizzell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Yeah because all drunk driving accidents in this state are by people over 21. :stongue:
Drunk driving/underage drinking are two different things. |
Like I said, think of how many more there would be if an 18 year old can go out any night of the week to a bar. You think he/she will be using mass transit to get home from the bar? There are already plenty of DUI-related collisions and deaths from people under the age of 21 (I couldn't detect your sarcasm there). So, we already have an issue with young people not being responsible behind the wheel.
I agree with you though on the driving part. Maybe the state can allow 18-20 year olds to drink, but still make it illegal to drive on .01 or higher.
But you would be silly to deny that there would be far more DUI-related collisions and deaths if it were legal for that age range to go out and drink. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by skizzell
Like I said, think of how many more there would be if an 18 year old can go out any night of the week to a bar. You think he/she will be using mass transit to get home from the bar? There are already plenty of DUI-related collisions and deaths from people under the age of 21 (I couldn't detect your sarcasm there). So, we already have an issue with young people not being responsible behind the wheel.
I agree with you though on the driving part. Maybe the state can allow 18-20 year olds to drink, but still make it illegal to drive on .01 or higher.
But you would be silly to deny that there would be far more DUI-related collisions and deaths if it were legal for that age range to go out and drink. |
Well what I'm saying is, drinking irresponsibly is a problem in itself, un-related to age limits. Yeah there might be a few more accidents for awhile after the change, but ultimatley, what the goal should be, is making young adults less likely to drink their faces off at every opportunity since alcohol is already available to them.
Unfortunatley we are pretty far down the 21+ road to change it now, but it only perpetuates the way young americans drink. It's all or nothing, wasted or straight edge sober...that middle ground of being able to go to a bar and have 2-3 drinks then drive home later is lost... |
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| skizzell |
Agreed. America has a severe drinking problem. If only alcohol was a part of our culture in the way it is in Europe and other countries. 18-21 is really the sweet spot though where people are young and reckless when it comes to drinking and then getting behind the wheel. Better to have strict laws imposed on them now, with hopes to shape their future habits.
Worrying about having my license revoked (not suspended) for consuming a drop of alcohol under the age of 21 has helped me immensely in making wiser driving decisions after a night of drinking. The system worked for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Then again, DUI laws are at the strictest they have ever been, and I applaud the state for that. I still think they can be even tougher, but at least fatalities are dropping (I *think*), in a place where more and more people are driving.
As for the older crowd (maybe 35+), they weren't necessarily used to being raised on the strict DUI laws that we see now. So their drinking/driving habits are seemingly a lost cause. It's up to the future generations who can keep the roads safe.
Tough issue, eh? |
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| Clovis |
Yeah its rough. But to put it in perspective, I've used a fake ID many times to see DJs/shows, without having a real driver's liscense, and I am deathly afraid of ever being drunk behind the wheel. The thought of it scares the out of me, because I really like drinking :o
When I started going to clubs when I lived in France, age limits werent even an issue (I was 17). In France (and most of Europe) ~18 are treated like adults, and thus they are expected to have the responsibility of adults, which for the most part they do. When I did my last year of high school here I was amazed at how immature and ridiculous kids act vis-a-vis alcohol in this country. I felt like I was back in 8th grade. All my best friends here are over 21, most of them are between 22-26, so naturally I wanted to go hang out with that crowd, and that meant getting an ID.
Should I be chastised for using an ID to see DJs I like? Its not like I enjoy doing it, breaking the law everytime I go out. I don't go to clubs so I can drink, I can do that at home without problems, I go to clubs to hear the music I love.
I'll be 21 in about a month, but the number of absolutely amazing shows and nights I would have spent sitting at home without an ID is pretty alarming. I dont regret it for a second. |
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| skizzell |
Hey, as long as you're not drinking at these venues then I could care less. What really pisses me off though, is the thought of a place that I like to frequent having to lose their liquor license due to serving under-aged people.
As long as you are using your fake to get into the venues and not putting anyone (but yourself) at risk, then I salute you.
I hear ya though. It's all about the music! :D
(but I'm also willing to bet that most people who get fakes like to abuse it and drink at bars too.) ;[ |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by skizzell
Hey, as long as you're not drinking at these venues then I could care less. What really pisses me off though, is the thought of a place that I like to frequent having to lose their liquor license due to serving under-aged people.
As long as you are using your fake to get into the venues and not putting anyone (but yourself) at risk, then I salute you.
I hear ya though. It's all about the music! :D
(but I'm also willing to bet that most people who get fakes like to abuse it and drink at bars too.) ;[ |
Well, I think alot of clubs actually let it happen because they know they'll make more money off the bar.
It isnt that hard to tell a fake ID from a real one, I've had two of them, and though they were both excellent, scanable IDs, anyone with a keen eye could spot it really quick. If they let you in with a fake IMO it's also their fault at that point. Plus I know lots and lots of clubs who allow under-age drinking, among certain staff, or even letting in "friends" who are under-age. Its a fine line for them, but I think whether or not a fake ID is used, is usually irrelevant because of the above.
If all clubs had door staff like the guys at Circus/Arena who can spot fakes/underage folk from a mile away, there wouldnt be a problem since people like me would just know that its not possible to get in.
All that said, sorry to give the wrong impression, but I have drank many times out, though like I said, its not why I go. :o |
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| gehzumteufel |
theres nothing wrong with a fake id imho unless you are using it to commit a real crime. fake id does not constitute a real crime. going to an event with one doesnt either. these are things that are just stupid social idiosyncracies that people associate with crime beacuse its engrained in society.
clovis check pms |
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| skizzell |
@Clovis:
Well, you also have a different background (being raised overseas, I presume). So what I say isn't personally directed toward you. You're a cool guy.
But for each good person, there are plenty of umm, retards. :P |
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| skizzell |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
theres nothing wrong with a fake id imho unless you are using it to commit a real crime. fake id does not constitute a real crime. going to an event with one doesnt either. these are things that are just stupid social idiosyncracies that people associate with crime beacuse its engrained in society. |
I don't associate it with crime. I guess I just generally associate it with a disrespect for the law, and putting other people at risk (at the bar and on the road). I don't think that's necessarily fair to the rest of us.
Think about another thing you can associate fake ID's with: illegal immigrants. I'd like to know what percentage of buyers of fakes at these locations are illegals...
...don't even get me started there. ;P
** On that note, I'm done expressing my opinions in this thread. That's all they are, just my opinions. Hope I haven't pissed anyone off. ;] |
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